The Angry Asian Girl

Thanks to our friend Badboy who posted this in his Asian Divas group. I thought this girl was quite funny in getting her point across. I would hope that most of us guys who prefer Asian ladies don’t act like her ill mannered dates! πŸ™‚

Asian Fetish according to Gen the Angry Asian Girl

So the other day, I went out on a date with a man. A White Man. THE
MAN for my revolutionary brothers and sisters. So anyway, as I’m out
on a date this man, he’s telling me about his ex girlfriend, and he
prefaces it with saying “so my ex-girlfriend, she’s Korean.” …and so
on and so forth. It starts to hit me, and I’m trapped, and I don’t
know what to do short of, throw my salad against the wall to cause a
diversion and run for the door.
Genevieve, I say to myself, because that’s my name, you’re with a Rice
King. Stay Calm and try not to act overtly Asian and inadvertently
getting him aroused.

Rice King see Asian Fever, see Yellow Fever, see Asian Fetish, see
G.I. Joe.

After he drones on about his car, a new convertible beamer with some
type of flecked paint and expensive rims (strike one,) about his job
as a radio promo guy for a record label, I’ve got the best job in the
world!, (strike two,) about his ex-girlfriend, she’s Korean, if you
didn’t already know (strike three) he begins to tell me about his LOVE
of Asian culture. YOU’RE OUT!

He then proceeds to tell me that it’s not that he has an Asian Fetish,
per se, (Insert image of overly-tanned, beamer-owning, Radio Promo
Guy, with Asian Fetish doing the universal sign for quotation marks
here.) It’s just that I LOVE Asian culture SO MUCH, I mean, I even
bought a 6 hour special on PBS about Chinese History. Do you know the
oppression that the Chinese have been through with (so and so) and (so
and so) and then (something else) happened. It’s so rich. I just
really need to be with someone who understands it. I mean, I probably
know more about Asian History than the average Asian American but it’s
important to me that Asian history is something the person I’m with
wants to learn about.

(Me. Gaping open mouth. Inability to contribute to conversation for
the first time in the history of Asian Man.)

Here the clincher. Also I just don’t find your typical American White
or European woman attractive. Asian and Latin women are soooo,
you guessed it, the E word, Exotic.

Me: Wow, look at the time. It was nice having dinner with you. Lets
talk sometime in say, the year of the dog.

Ok I didn’t really say that, but how great would it be?

So then, I go out on a date with a whole other different guy. Yes,
white. Who’s really great so I’ll try to not rip on him so much. He’s
a divorcee and he was married to a Japanese woman. They met while he
was teaching ESL (English as a Second Language.) Six years later they
divorce. Why did they divorce? Because she never bothered to learn
English. She always spoke a badly broken form of English.

So I’m trying to figure out if I’m attracting Asian Fetishists because
I am Asian or is Asian Fetishists are attracted to me because I am
Asian. What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Or am I a White Boy fetishist? Or maybe I have Asian Fetishists
Fetish. And is it only an Asian Fetish because the man is not Asian
himself? I don’t know.

What I do know is that I just really hope this whole Asian-thing is a
phase. Like Trucker hats and Ugg Boots.

But for you Asian Fetishists out there, here are some guidelines:

1) Don’t blow your entire knowledge of the (Insert appropriate Asian
dialect or language here) on us. We are not impressed that you know
how to say “Hi, I Love you and you’re beautiful” in Cantonese or
Tagalog or Japanese. Those are the phrases you need to know if you’re
propositioning a prostitute in their country or origin. Guess what
guys, we speak PERFECT English. In fact, we speak Engrish BEDDY GOOD.

2) Don’t tell me you love (reading of menu from a Chinese restaurant
here) but give me the only American-friendly options like: Chow Mein,
Fried Rice, Won Ton. We have a lot more than three dishes guys. And
no, I won’t cook for your ass. So don’t ask.

3) Don’t give me a history lesson on my culture. I don’t go around
telling you about the Revolutionary War and the Declaration of

4) Please don’t call us EXOTIC. I’ll hurt you. I swear I will.

5) Please don’t get tattoos of our words and phrases on your body. If
you want to eternally communicate Strong Bold Persevere or what have
you on your body, Old English letters and cursive is so nice. Plus
half the time, SURPRISE! You’ve actually just tattooed something
stupid on yourself like HARD LARGE or SUSTAIN. ALSO, guess what?

6) Its not special that you know how to use chop sticks. Over 1
billion people in one country alone know how to use chopsticks and
they learned them at about the time you were using a sippy cup.

7) Don’t advertise your Asian Fetish by telling us about your Asian
exs. We WANT to date you, but it makes it hard when we can’t help but
feel were taking part of your geisha girl fantasies. It’s a free
country, you can have your Asian Fetish, and I can have my choking
fetish and we can all live together side by side. Just don’t tell me
about it. If you do we can’t help but be conflicted. Does he like me
cos I’m Asian? Or does he like me because of me? Does he like me
because of my slanty eyes? Or does he like me because of ME? Is he
trying to figure out if my slit is sideways? Or is it ME? Guess what
guys, if I’m out with you, chances are you’re well on your way to
laidville. Half the battle is already won. You don’t need to make me
feel special by expressing your love of my culture. And you’ll
increase your chances of me and you doing the funky monkey dance
ten-fold if you keep your Asian Fetish where it belongs. In the closet.

Gen the Angry Asian Girl.

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0 thoughts on “The Angry Asian Girl”

  1. Meh, for the record, my girlfriend’s english is far from perfect. ;D

    But seriously, this girl… she must be too easy to approach, because most guys w/ azn preference like the one she described can’t even muster the kahones to talk to an azn girl. I could be wrong…

  2. I confess.

    I do like asian women. Call it what you want.

    What I think you really need to do is stay away from guy’s in sales and marketing or entertainment.

    Especially guy’s who are in sales or marketing and entertainment at the same time.

  3. I would call my leaning towards Asian women simply a preference, not a fetish.

    When I think of a “fetish” I think of weird stuff like toe sucking or bondage…not that there’s anything wrong with it. πŸ™‚

  4. I prefer Asian women.I don’t think of it a fetish.I do however think that Asian women have an across the board fetish for TODD.Don’t make me explain that one again.


    this girl’s got it spot-on. jdrevenge, sorry, but it’s not true that many asian fetishists won’t have the guts to talk to us. i can’t estimate how many asian fetishists are out there but it tends to be that the majority of the people that hit on me are asian fetishists. i know for a fact that i am not ugly, so it should not be due to no one else finding me attractive, and i also know that i don’t look really asian, so it can’t be that my conventional asian looks are attracting them. it’s been distributed pretty equally between white and black guys. asian guys don’t hit on me because i guess i look too …uh, untraditional (read: i’m not trying to bleach my skin to unnatural levels of paleness, i don’t have long black hair and chunky bangs in front [btw lee, i got another haircut after that horrendous disaster], and i pay no semblance to any jpop stars)

    it begins innocently enough. the guy looks nice, he strikes up convo, then on your first hang-out or extensive convo, he slowly begins to reveal the underpinnings for his attraction to you. “im really into asian culture,” or “i’m not really attracted to blondes (which morphs later into…)” “(…this tell-tale sign:) most of my past girlfriends have been asian” “i think asian girls are beautiful” *vomits*

    i don’t want to be a bitch so i’m probably sitting there contemplating if there are any other reasons for not dating you while you continue to blab and the tarp of euphemisms you’ve laid over your yellow fever is practically bursting apart at the seams. really, it just makes you that much more unattractive, because it makes me wonder if you like me only because i’m asian.

    everyone has their aesthetic preferences – some only like blondes, and blondes could make a similar argument. but for some odd reason, there is something ostensibly different about an asian fetish that i cannot quite explain. it may be that liking asians sometimes reduces us to nothing but a means for sexual fulfillment – as gen put it, “geisha fantasies” – but i don’t think it’s quite that. it could be that most of the asian fetishists i’ve met have assumed that somehow i would be nicer and smarter than all of the other girls because i was asian. sorry, but smarter, maybe. nicer? um…

    all in all, it’s very sweet and frank of you to tell us that you’re into asians but a lot of us (like me) haven’t really learned to deal or feel comfortable with it yet. have some more tact!

  6. What a double standard. Girls like her often find themselves dating mostly non-Asian males too. Who’s got the fetish?

  7. @johnnie: pseudo marxist? how was gen’s rant even remotely marxist? it’s not like she has “proletariat” and “class struggle” stamped all over it

    @stripes: i am aware of your TODD. i once dated a cleverly disguised TODD. big mistake. unfortunately i think TODDs comprise the majority of people who approach me.

  8. this post COMPLETELY emphasizes THIS:

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  9. @microfridge: they might find themselves dating mostly non-Asian males because non-Asian males are the only ones hitting on them. i have not ONCE been hit on by an asian guy. not ONCE.

  10. @christine: have you ever sent “signals” to an asian guy? i find it hard to believe that you’re attractive, let a guy know that you’re interested, and they didn’t respond. i’m asian and i like all sorts of girls, and i know that unless you run into an exclusively asian crowd, you don’t really run into the stereotype of asian guys wanting asian dolls/idols.

  11. here is another piece they did called “chinky eyes”

    and the full version of the other piece linked on my last comment:

    the two are a spoken word group called “yellow rage.” im pretty sure they would not appreciate anything written about them posted on this site but i do believe that forwarding these links help promote some of the ideals theyve tried to convey through their performances.

  12. Right on northman…preference not fetish

    to Gen,
    if some guy likes to date blonde hair blue eyed girls because that is what he finds attractive, nobody is going to say he has a ‘barbie fetish’ right? If I’m a white guy dating a 200lb KFC-loving country girl, is someone going to call me a fat girl fetishist? Why can’t a guy just like what he likes without being labled? Just because we like something different from ourselves (that is us white guys) doesn’t mean we are defective. Does it really matter ‘which came first?’ You gotta get to know each other anyway.
    For the record, its not the “slanty eyes” or the “sideways slit”:) (is that why they’re so tight? :)) It’s the total package baby.
    Chances are pretty good that if I’m out with YOU then I like you and you have a pretty good chance of getting a little mushu porkin’ if you don’t try to go all revolutionary on me and overthinking the whole thing. Maybe I really like to talk about asian culture and history. If you don’t want to talk about that, then stop sitting there all ornamental-like looking at the door and speak the heck up…or maybe you’d prefer to talk about American history or the war in Iraq. Either way, I’m out with you so I probably will give you a chance to take a spin on the magic white horse (who’s to say that’s not YOUR fetish) if you play your cards right.
    Fact is, with most any guy dating most any girl…guys will talk either about themselves and their good points or they will talk about something they think you might like to talk about. The job and money thing is universal because that’s what a lot of women of all races are into and don’t even try to say that asian women aren’t that way…Guys play to that, its just the way we are built and if you’re not the first asian-siren in my life, chances are something i’ve done worked in the past and i’m probably gonna work it again (though to be honest, I, personally, would not mention having dated another asian unless it came up ;if that makes you feel any better)

  13. @micro: no i haven’t sent “signals.” i actually don’t send signals ever. i don’t proactively seek out guys, but if some guy likes me then i might pursue that. but i think the question of whether i’ve been actively pursuing asian guys begs the question – why haven’t they been hitting on me, if all of the other ethnicities have? i don’t understand that. as it turns out, a lot of asian guys i’ve met are into white girls. it seems that the only asian girl asian guy couples i’ve seen on my campus hav ebeen with those really stereotypical asian guys like you mention. i am totally willing (even eager) to date an asian guy. it would actually be my preference right now.

  14. OK let’s get this clear. a LOT of asian girls have been taught to go after white guys, because it would raise their status. they see themselves of lower status.

    there is ANOTHER group of asian girls (of which I am a part) that do NOT proactively seek to date white guys. this is where you guys might be getting confused.

    this is probably hard for you guys because you are getting two different messages – there are some girls who do seem to want you because you’re white and they, whether subconsciously or consciously, have a white fetish. on the other hand, there are other girls – like gen, probably – who don’t really give a shit what your ethnicity is and when you guys come on really strong with this “i love asians” stuff it really pisses us off

  15. christine, i think a lot of it would have to do with culture. asian guys grow up a bit more reserved than white guys. and white guys, i’d say are more reserved than black guys or latinos. i know for myself, if a girl can’t smile at me when we meet gazes, i don’t see much worth exploring there. the “cold hard bitch” stereotype. i know a lot of white guys though, they love the thrill of the chase a lot more.

    but anyway, i would bet a million that if u see a good-looking asian guy checking you out and you return the tiniest little smile, he’ll come over and see what’s up. just my two cents.

    to relate it all back to this, maybe asian girls like non-asian guys more b/c they make them feel more special right off the bat.

  16. I love Asian women. I love Irish women with red hair. I love petite Latina’s. I adore tall Polish blondes (and those from Sweden, Norway and Denmark, too). I dig women from the Islands and Africa with smooth chocolate skin. I love…

    Well, you get the picture.

    I certainly understand AAG’s frustration, if she really finds that the men she dates are Sinophiles (or Japanophiles or whatever), but from the story she shares, it sounds like she might be creating her own hell, to some degree.

    A guy who mentions his last girlfriend was Korean may, or may not, have an unnatural attraction to Asian women. A man disclosing his interest in some aspects of Asian culture may be tipping his hand as to his interests in her as “an Asian” rather than “a woman”. It is also possible that the guy is just nervous and trying to make some conversation and doing a poor job of it.

    I don’t usually stick up for men, as they tend to be simplistic trolls who think with their dicks and say anything to get laid. In this case, though, that same mentality suggests that many of these guys probably are just shallow and stupid…and not necessarily operating with a single-minded Asian agenda.

    With that said, if I were a woman, I might reject these guys for being stupid enough to discuss an ex-girlfriend on a second date…or lacking the intelligence and/or self confidence to carry on a conversation without resorting to the “I love Asians” list of topics.

    I am sure AAG has encountered her fair share of true-blue Asian-fetishists, I am guessing she has read into more than her share, as well.

    Plus, if your antenna is raised and you are looking for someone to say something stupid and/or offensive, you are very likely to find it, irrespective of what was really said and/or meant.

    I support AAG in her anger! Women settle too easily, for self-involved and dunder-headed men, IMO. But, I think she may want to chill a bit and at least give a guy a CHANCE to show her that he isn’t what she is so sure he is.


    Hit a nerve?

    I never say I’m into asian culture.

    I never even talk about race.

    I don’t say they’re exotic.

    I never say my old girlfriends are asian.

    If I’m out with a girl, I talk about things where we might find a common interest. The last think I want her to think is that I am only into her because she’s asian, even if it’s true. LOL

  18. @bigfoot dean & northman – i agree that aag’s rant was a little toooo assuming of the guy, especially when she starts talking about the guy’s interests like big rims and whatnot.

    i failed to mention this in my heated rants above i admit that there are also guys who like asians but not exclusively, and i think that girls tend to have their antennas raised a lot because the ones who DO like asians exclusively are often creepy. it only takes one instance of dating/meeting a guy who is realllllllly into asians and is also creepy for any woman to be more cautious the next time.

    to throw some stereotypes out, a subset of guys typically into asian girls are those anime-reading computer-inclined people that spend a lot of time coding, playing rpgs, or watching hentai. when we encounter someone that mentions they like asians and also that they like anime, it’s hard for us not to suspect that we’re just going to be fulfilling their cowboy bebop/sailor moon/bug-eyed anime character fantasies.

    @microfridge – you could be right about the asian guys. i’ll try smiling at some when i start really wanting a boyfriend and i’ll report the results back. πŸ™‚

    sorry i’ve been commenting up a storm with this post!!! this one REALLY hits home, guys πŸ˜€

  19. well what about me ever since i was little 90%of my friends have been of asian decent (mostly chinese) so growing up in asian culture and being around it all my life, means that im an asian fetishist?? i beg to differ its just what im used to… id say right now 85 to 90% of my friends are chinese and they seem to think im more “fobby” then they are and they call me things like “whasian” and “backwards twinkie”. so does the fact that i like asian girls mean im a fetishist?? if so why?? and to be honest i havent always dated asians ive dated black girls and latinas but i prefer an asian girl… cause i mean come on who doesnt love an asian girl… but when i meet an asian girl why do they always assume its a fetish??? so christine if you think it hits home for you then what about me?? i always gett pegged as the asian lover/fetishist… why cant i just be me that likes to hang out with asians and date an asian girl??? and btw christine ill date you if you want ;D

  20. sorry just one more line to add: just like you want to be accepted for who you are not just because you are asian… is the same thing for me this is who i am why cant i be accepted for that?

  21. aw brayker! πŸ˜€ i totally sympathize, i’m sorry to hear all that. i dunno, i think that caucasian male/asian female relationships are going to be a difficult topic for many years to come. i’ve cooled down a bit since i went on my commenting spree above and i think i can probably speak with greater clarity about the issue now:

    i don’t think there’s anything wrong with liking asian girls. we’re all entitled to our own sexual preferences, and there is really no reason to try to make our sexual preferences live up to some sugarcoated idea of what’s normal. so people who’ve commented, like brayker and northman and bigfoot dean and microfridge, i don’t think there’s anything creepy about you guys, and i hope other asian girls can see that too!

    i think it would be naive to deny the existence of men who are both asian fetishists and really give ‘liking asians’ a bad name. these are men who either see us as the typecast ‘china doll,’ or men who relegate their social difficulties to being ostracized by western society and therefore, in an escapist way, seek to date asian girls because they think eastern culture will be more accepting, or… the list goes on. the common thread is that underlying their attraction to asian girls is an imposed notion that we will have some cultural trait – be it enthusiastic servitude, kinkiness, or an exceedingly sweet, passive, and forgiving personality.

    (continued below)

  22. My first thought when I read that rant is that the date should have ended once that guy mentioned his ex. Who the hell does that?

    My thing is this: just be sure that the guy indeed has a fetish and is not just saying something stupid. The chicks that I’ve seen on the net that’ve been ranting and raving have been too assuming that the guy that they are on a date with has a fetish and are quick to tell the world how much they hate them but the evidence they give is more of the guy is just a douche and not a fetishist. If all of a guy’s exes were Asian, then that is good cause to be concerned or if he talks only about Asian culture or says something really stooopid/stereotypical/racist about Asian women or is heavily sweating you when you’re just aveage looking. Those are good reasons to bounce.

    I love Asian women but I also love all types. I just find Asian women to be the most beautiful women out there. That’s all. But if I tried to go up and talk to one, automatically she’s wondering if I have a fetish. Unless I get a signal, I don’t bother because if I just went up and talked to her, she’s wondering why I’m talking to her and is just looking for a reason to dismiss me as having a fetish, especially since I’m not a TODD. I’m just an average Black guy. I end up having to not mention anything that in some way has the slightest relation to Asia or Asian culture which is silly. At least wait for me to say or do something clearly stupid before putting the antennas up, but I guess that is hard to do after one bad incident.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with going up to a nice guy and hitting to him. Don’t just wait for a guy to hit on you then complain about going out with someone creepy.

    I’m just tired of all this Asian fetish stuff and people trying to come up with catchy ___ophiles to call someone who happens to like Asian women. And I’m tired of being considered a fetishist right off the bat just because I happen to like Asians because that does not happen for any other race/ethnicity. And I’m tired of these chicks who complain about going out with fetishists but won’t give a nice guy the time of day because if they were, then they wouldn’t be ranting and raving about dating a fetishist. Hope I didn’t rant too much πŸ™‚

  23. not only is it, i think, terrible to try to typecast asian women (subconsciously or consciously) in this way, i think it’s extremely misguided.

    but let’s say that you are one of the people that don’t have horridly misguided preconceptions of asian women. there are still problems on OUR side of the story.

    in america, ‘asian’ is a term that belies a variegated collection of ethnicities. some have immigrated here via an h-1b visa, others have come as refugees. there are those that have histories extending to the late 1800s and thus have ancestry in america for several generations. on top of that, in our history, different ethnicities have been treated differently – chinese people in california, japanese people during world war II – or they have immigrated at different times (southeast asians immigrating, influenced by american transnationalism in that area).

    AAG and I are angry because the people that hit on us, though sometimes unintentionally, don’t realize that among us there is really no common thread aside from the way we look. our reasons for acting the way we do are deeply engrained in our culture and upbringing, but because the ways which asians came to this country is so diverse it would be idiotic to even try to generalize. some asian girls will respond very positively to “i love asian girls” if you are non-asian. others won’t. and i think this confuses a lot of men, but they have no idea why their methods aren’t working or why they anger us so much.

    (continued again below)

  24. i mean, for example, i hate it personally when guys expect me to know chinese. i grew up in a community that was 90% white, and i hung out with a bunch of preppy white kids for the first half of my life, you know? i didn’t know how to use chopsticks until i was 16.

    so i guess, in conclusion, all i’m trying to say is if you’re going to hit on an asian girls because you’re stoked on asian girls, you should get to know her first before busting out the fact that you love asians. and since so many of us are familiar with the creeps, you should take extra caution to let her know you’re not one of them or reassure her that you’re not going to ask her to wear a kimono to bed and whisper japanese dirty things to you.

    in our case, it’s our fault for being ultra-paranoid about people with asian predilections. like in candyman, brayker, northman, bigfoot dean, whomever’s case, obviously there’s nothing weird. i guess we’re so used to second-guessing your intentions anyhow! πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰

  25. definition of a TODD, courtesy of STRIPES:
    “TODD is the generic name of any dorky White guy you see with a hot Asian chick.White girls were’nt giving him the time of day…hell…for that matter he probably could’nt get laid in a whorehouse.He’s always a dork.It’s never the cool white guys.So-Cal Asian babes loooove TODD.He’s safe yet “exotic”….and he embodies everything that SoCal Asian babes’ twinkified mindset has been hard wired to desire.
    In my rowdier moments-I’ve been known to call TODD by his name in a snort of contempt.The joke is lost on all involved except me and maybe a coupla’ running buddies.One of my companies is a clothing business.Sometimes I think about printing up a delightfully rude and offensive tee to highlight this travesty.”

    taken from the brenda song post, on june 11 2007

  26. Best part of this is that Angry Gen, probably didn’t say a word of this to the guy’s face. She just let him pay the dinner bill, never put out, and filleted him in her blog. I’m glad to have never met this mean little minx me thinks, or bought her drinks. Or maybe I have, or someone like it and have blocked it from my memory. Thank Buddha.

  27. yes but christine coming from my childhood i was raised more chinese than most of the chinese people that i know so its not only a preference its more part of my culture (not that i dont value and celebrate my own culture) its just because im not chinese, asian, have yellow skin or small eyes and like asian (preferably chinese) girls that i get looked at like a weirdo and its not like im a manga reading keyboard fapping weirdo… as you can see from pictures in the post but i really hate it when girls do that kind of stereotyping i mean i dont do it to you guys so why do it to me??

    ps hope the link works its my first time linking on here other than picture links

  28. This is all so entertaining. Im no suave lady killer but I did date a few women of different races and settled on a wonderful, beautiful Chinese woman as my second wife. I admit I had a lot of pre-conceived notions about how she might be but I will tell you she has very little in common with the stereotypes (well she does enjoy cooking, cleaning and sex). She is more intelligent and determined than any women I have been with and a fantastic mother to our boy. I think if the guys here are looking for that in a woman they should look no further than Chinese women. It doesnt mean you wont find it in the women of other cultures but I think the chances are better with a nice Chinese woman. Just my two cents.

  29. Well, this has got a lot of posts already, but I figure I’ll relay my “doorway” theory on dating because it might help. When a girl is open to dating, she has a “doorway” that’s open for people to come in so she can meet them and check them out, etc. The thing is that the doorway is only so big and only so many people can fit through this door at one time. Now there are many nice, well-adjusted men of all ethnicities who might wander in the door to meet said girl, but this becomes *very* hard when the door is already crammed tight with zealots whose only goal in life is to get it on with an exotic erotic celestial from the Far East. So if any Asian girls are wondering why only Asian fetishists seem to wander into their room, it’s because they’ve managed to pry their way past the other ten stuck in their door.

  30. This seems to be a problem mainly asian women living in the united states have because I never saw any of this way of thinking with the asian women living on okinawa. Over there they seem to have had bigger problems to deal with in life than whether or not their american date had an asian fetish or not. Only in america.

  31. I read that whole thing, and I gotta say, the guys she met seem like huge douche bags.

    I got a big laugh out of this line though! πŸ˜€

    ‘Rice King see Asian Fever, see Yellow Fever, see Asian Fetish, see
    G.I. Joe.’

  32. Once again…only in america does this problem exist. A made up load of crap by the women in this country. A little something for just a few to dwell over. Not that I care though. πŸ™‚

  33. That was entertaining. If you really want to get pissed off, though, you should read some of the crap the Angry Azn GUYS write about white guys “stealing their women” and fetishizing them “because they look like 12-year-old boys.”

    (Remind me again who has the lower opinion of Asian women…?)

  34. AAG’s date certainly sounds like a tool by any “date standards” and overzealous about asian culture, but what about AAG herself? I’m sure most guys who read her screed have a few choice words that come to mind for her. Concur, the pejorative “asian fetishist” label is an American phenomenom cooked-up by label-crazy America (the addition of the “ist” label is all the proof needed). I also agree that some guys out there that do like asian women are creepy, but call it like it is…they are just creeps, plain and simple. I will not apologize because I prefer to date asian women. I don’t sweat it either arf, I have lived in SE Asia for the majority of the past 2 years so it’s a non-issue. No BS like that with the women here, just bliss ; )

  35. If “TODD” is a dork with a hot babe, what would you call the reasonably attractive white guy, dating an Asian girl with an ugly face and ‘smokin hot’ body?

    I’ve seen quite a few couples who fit that description, here in Columbus. Are these guys the ‘fetishists’ we’re talking about, here? Guys who date Asian girls because they’re Asian? (No matter what they look like).

    Columbus, Ohio (home of this nation’s largest university) has a comparatively large Asian population, especially Chinese. Each Memorial Day weekend, the Asian Festival is held at the Franklin Park Conservatory. The “Anti-TODD” phenomenon can be seen here, in abundance. It’s extremely rare to see an attractive Asian girl with any unattractive male, regardless of ethnicity.

  36. Wow, I’ve just come home to this after having gone to both Vietnamese and Japanese restaurants for dinner, with a mostly Chinese lady friend! A lot has been said already, so I’ll just expand on what I think are a few key points:

    Gen: After he drones on about his car, a new convertible beamer with some type of flecked paint and expensive rims (strike one,)

    I think this should be a warning bell for any girl with regard to any guy – the last thing you want is a revhead who loves his car more than he loves you!

    Gen: Don’t tell me you love (reading of menu from a Chinese restaurant here) but give me the only American-friendly options like: Chow Mein, Fried Rice, Won Ton. We have a lot more than three dishes guys.

    This really annoys me too. There’s a whole world of Chinese and other Asian food out there – get adventurous and enjoy it!

    Christine: AAG and I are angry because the people that hit on us, though sometimes unintentionally, don’t realize that among us there is really no common thread aside from the way we look. our reasons for acting the way we do are deeply engrained in our culture and upbringing, but because the ways which asians came to this country is so diverse it would be idiotic to even try to generalize. some asian girls will respond very positively to “i love asian girls” if you are non-asian. others won’t. and i think this confuses a lot of men, but they have no idea why their methods aren’t working or why they anger us so much.

    I think Christine’s pretty much hit the nail on the head here. An Asian fetishist will take any Asian girl, as long as she looks Asian. Someone with a true connection to (some) Asian people will connect far more with some nationalities than others, beacuse if you really do know and understand their cultures, you will know they are in fact quite different. Personally, although I often find Japanese and Korean women quite physically attractive, I have only ever actually dated (and gotten really close to) Chinese and Vietnamese, as I connect with them a lot more.

    Still, having said that, I’m going to get Christine fired up now (I’m glad I’m on the other side of the world!), by agreeing with the follwoing statement (continued below)…

  37. Arf: This seems to be a problem mainly asian women living in the united states have because I never saw any of this way of thinking with the asian women living on okinawa. Over there they seem to have had bigger problems to deal with in life than whether or not their american date had an asian fetish or not. Only in america.

    I think the fact that Christine, Gen and other Asian American girls get so worked up about this issue says at least as much about them as it does about the guys they date. Why the hell do you girls get so worked up about this? There’s all sorts of guys out there with all sorts of sexual preferences, and a lot of them are creeps – some of them are Asiaphiles, but many of them are not. So why does this particular fetish matter so much to you, when comparable fetishes don’t bother other women anywhere near as much, including Asian women in other countries? And why is this apparently so much more of an issue for you than other “creepy” behaviour on the part of men? If you want to resolve this issue, I really think you’d better take a long, hard think about exactly why this is the case – if you’d like to discuss it further Christine, you know my email!

    BTW Christine, I thought you were supposed to be busy with your studies? Still, I’m glad to hear you got rid of those bangs. πŸ˜‰

  38. As for my own preference for Asians, it basically comes down to one thing: I just get along with Chinese and Vietnamese much better than I ever have with whites. I grew up in a very white upper middle class neighbourhood, and I usually preferred blonde hair and blue eyes when I was in school. Nevertheless, my best friends throughout high school were two Chinese guys (just about the only Chinese in my grade!), as I simply connected with them in a way I rarely could with whites.

    It wasn’t until I finished school and worked at a place where a lot of the staff were Vietnamese that I discovered the beauty of Asian women. I also found that, once again, I got along with them a lot better than I did with white women. I became so close to one lady that she still likes me to call her “mum”, and her whole family treat me much more as a member of their family than my own family ever did. I always felt like a black sheep in my own family (and was treated as such), but here I felt I truly “belonged”.

    I live amongst a Chinese community now, and I am so much a part of it that I don’t even think about the fact that almost all my friends are either Chinese or Vietnamese now. It’s just worked out that way, because I get along with them so well. Hence, it is only natural that Chinese and Vietnamese women are my preference in choosing a partner (I often find Japanese and Korean women quite attractive, but I just don’t usually connect with them in the same way).

    Still, having said that, the women I get closest too are usually quite “unconventional” – I like strong, fiery and independent women. And I have to say, this is a lot more common amongst Chinese women than we are usually led to believe!

    Oh yes, the other big factor is that Chinese and Vietnamese women seem to really like me. πŸ˜‰

  39. Umm…it’s called “small talk” and the guy was being stupid. Even more so in her eyes.

    I guess she’d rather talk about health and the weather?

    For me it was simple. In college (engineering) for some reason I ended up with the asians in a study group. We had enough diversity in our classes that the asians ended up having to speak english to each other. That and the classes were so damn hard we were forced into working together to try to pass some of the the classes. Funny I actually didn’t meet any asian girls until several years later.

  40. To correct that I met the asian girls and then I started to get “chased” by them. That’s a good position to be (especially if you aren’t totally stupid like I was at the time).

  41. why does the ‘asian fetish’ bother girls like AAG and I and why is it only a phenomenon in the states?

    first of all, i think you may be underestimating how often this occurs. if you’re a girl that doesn’t really seek out dates but instead just gets hit on, then chile149’s doorway theory has some point. we get a lot more creeps than we actually get decent nice guys, and this i think is true for all asian girls living in the u.s.. we are only 4.4% of the u.s. population after all (10% in california). i think you would be bothered too if you were getting continually pestered by overzealous creepy people whose behavior was idiotic and ill-reasoned.

    it makes no sense to even talk about asian fetish outside of the u.s. or countries where asians don’t comprise the majority because no one cares if you love asian girls if you’re living in an asian country; with the lines AAG’s guy threw out, they probably may that as appreciating and respecting the native culture.

    the girls that are going to be more forgiving are the ones who’ve still clung onto their heritage, so advances by zealots who looove asian history and looove our culture and our language and how all of us look might be more flattering than straight-up crude. this is probably because they see you as appreciating them for who they are.

    but the whitewashed asians like myself and AAG, or the ones that have nearly completely separated from our eastern roots, being asian is only a small part of who we are. we’re probably the ones that care the most about this. and i think we have reason to since obviously the line of thought is misguided. we’re not all the same! not even remotely!

  42. AAG is funny, and probably would be hotter to me were she a little less angry and take more responsibility for her choices and stop blaming others. This applies to women in general too. I hear women all the time rant “All the good men are taken” “All men are a-holes!” Really? Choosing excessively tanned guys with multiple gold chains who work in entertainment field marketing, can’t stop talking about his car, and talk about their past GFs on a first date? Yet a woman happily allowing him to buy you dinner & drinks? This transcends asian fetish. He’s a jerk no matter what! And shame on you for exploiting his money and generosity even though it was obvious he was all wrong for you!

    I could complain and focus on women who, upon first meeting me, ask what kind of car I drive, complain about exes, ask what I do (meaning how much $ I make) etc and categorize all women as gold-digging bitches, but we all know that would be unfair. And inaccurate.

    Christine: you are always giving out signals to men, whether you believe so or not. “Not giving out signals” is giving signals. You cannot not communicate.

    For AAG:
    1. My GF has a heavy accent. And she loves when I try out new Japanese phrases.

    2. She cooks for me. Or we cook together. Good sensual times!

    3. We freely discuss and share impressions of each other’s history & culture.

    5. Agree about retards with kanjo tattoos who have no inkling (haha – get it?) of Chinese language or culture.

    6. I use chopsticks yet don’t see that as any badge of honor.

    7. It’s good if he’s vocal about being a creepy jerk. Don’t you want to know that up front so you can kick him to the curb without wasting your time?

  43. you’ve Got To Be Taught To Be Afraid
    of People Whose Eyes Are Oddly Made,
    and People Whose Skin Is A Diff’rent Shade,
    you’ve Got To Be Carefully Taught.

    you’ve Got To Be Taught Before It’s Too Late,
    before You Are Six Or Seven Or Eight,
    to Hate All The People Your Relatives Hate,
    you’ve Got To Be Carefully Taught!

  44. I dont know i think asian girls should feel lucky that they are born into a culture that has a lot of natural beauty. So, I for one, dont feel sorry for them one bit.

    If Asian girls are bothered because U.S. men find them attractive or are the preference then to bad. Deal with it. I can think of worse problems to have.

    My VN gf became interested in me because i told her i was more Buddhist than catholic.
    She had a ton of guys after her and that simple comment got her interested. So, if i need to say something relative to her being Asian i wont hesitate but i wont over do it either.

    Besides, the trick to all women, Asian or not, is to let them do the talking, right?

  45. Every human being on this planet has their own “taste” or their own ideas of what they find attractive.

    For instance, some girls may like me because I am tall, blad and in-shape. Other girls may be turned off because I am bald… etc.

    Some guys like women who are plump with big asses and boobs… or maybe they find skinny women attractive. Etc.

    Some guys or girls date only black, white, Latino, or Asian. Why? It’s called a PERSONAL PREFERENCE! Now, does that mean that they can’t find someone who is compatible that isn’t their “ideal” ethnic dream? Of course not.

    There is a HUGE difference between a “fetish” and a “personal preference”… or even a “personal interest” from a guy or girl who enjoys another’s culture.

    I dated a Latina before and she was very happy that I was tying to learn her native language. My current girlfriend is honored that I am learning Mandarin so that I can speak to my future in-laws!

    So to bash anyone who is TRYING to learn something new based on what he/she likes, enjoys, feels inspired of, etc. is in itself rude, blind, and for a lack of a better word, insecure.

  46. Its sad to me when a self proclaimed victim/target of racism (or fetishism) turns out to be the most racist of all. And full of anger and rage, no less.

    The more identified anyone becomes with their race, sex, religious belief, sexual orientation, etc, the more easily they will become offended.

    If we all could all look at each other, and most importantly, ourselves, as “Human Beings” rather than “Asians”, “Germans”, “gays”, “heterosexuals”, “men”, “women”, “Catholics”, “Jews”, “Buddhists”, etc, most, if not all conflict in this world would end.

  47. I’ve dated every race under the sun…I love all women. I married an Asian woman and simply think beautiful Asian women have no equals. I cannot speak any Tagalog. However, I can say “cheers” in several languages. πŸ˜‰

    I thought she was funny btw.

  48. A few more key points:

    Christine: but the whitewashed asians like myself and AAG, or the ones that have nearly completely separated from our eastern roots, being asian is only a small part of who we are. we’re probably the ones that care the most about this. and i think we have reason to since obviously the line of thought is misguided. we’re not all the same! not even remotely!

    I think this is actually the key paragraph of Christine’s response above. I think the anger she and other Asian American girls harbour on this issue has more to do with figuring out their own place vis a vis American and Asian culture than anything else. For example, Christine does try hard not to look classically Asian – and as she definitely isn’t “classically Asian”, this is probably appropriate! But given that, is it any wonder she doesn’t get hit on by Asian guys? If you want to be American, then accept the fact that you’ll only be hit on by white guys, and just try to sort through the creeps – a lot of guys are, Asiaphile or not. But of you want to date Asians, then you’re probably going to have to be, well, Asian!

    migaguiar: Besides, the trick to all women, Asian or not, is to let them do the talking, right?

    Absolutely! In my experience, women want you to show genuine interest in them as individuals. Too many men just try to brag about themselves, which most good women hate.

    Olive Yellotale: If we all could all look at each other, and most importantly, ourselves, as “Human Beings” rather than “Asians”, “Germans”, “gays”, “heterosexuals”, “men”, “women”, “Catholics”, “Jews”, “Buddhists”, etc, most, if not all conflict in this world would end.

    I couldn’t agree more with this! Most of my friends are Chinese and Vietnamese, simply because I tend to get along with them. But it doesn’t matter what race you are; if we get along, I’m happy to be your friend, and indeed I have had friends of pretty much all races. We just have to see people as people (and not be so conscious of race), then everything will be fine.

  49. First off, a very interesting thread. I’m a long time reader but finally had to activate an account and post some thoughts when I read this thread.

    Here are a few random points:

    1. Being non-Asian and having a strong preference for Asian women.

    – There is nothing “creepy” about preferring one ethnicity over another in terms of sexual/physical/cultural attraction
    – There are a *subset* of people who prefer Asians that one could call “creepy”
    – A few bad apples shouldn’t spoil the lot

    2. Enjoying anime, manga, RPGs and computer related stuff and liking Asian women are not symbiotic.

    – I like all of the above but am extremely interested in music, sports and have many other interests.
    – Some people who have eclectic tastes are creepy (I’d like to think I’m not!) πŸ˜›
    – Some people who are labelled “geeky”, “nerdy”, <insert_your_stereotype_here> are actually really great, fun and interesting people. Some *are* creepy.
    – Some people do not find Asians attractive but do love anime, hentai, etc.

    3. Mentioning an ex on the 1st or 2nd date is not necessarily a bad thing.

    – My gf and I talked about past experiences on our first date; our likes and dislikes and stories about ex’s were part of the learning process
    – Talking about ex’s may be extremely bad form if the ex-factor has not already been established as an acceptable line of conversation
    – On 1st/2nd dates sometimes we are nervous and blather on about stuff we normally wouldn’t. No one is perfect.

    4. If you don’t want to talk about cultural history or want to keep conversations ethnic-non-specific, speak up and tell your date!

    – People initially try to find common ground so it only stands to reason that culture/ethnicity becomes an obvious lead
    – Sitting there infuriated and ranting, post-date is as much your fault as it is his for ruining the date

    In the end, sometimes a spade is just a spade. There ARE creepy asian-fetishists out there but there are a lot of guys who are genuinely into YOU – even if the reason they were attracted was only skin deep from the start. Afterall, isn’t all attraction shallow at the beginning?

    That all being said, I’m now wondering what my soon-to-be-fiancee (who is Japanese but grew up in the USofA) might think about this discussion. I hope I didn’t come across as a creepy, but harmless fetishist. πŸ˜›

    (Sorry about the excessively long post!)

  50. As AAG seems to be pretty Americanized and probably Asian-American and not at all “Asian”, much of her rant sounds like the anger, sense of entitlement, and resentment of men that American women of every ethnicity exhibit.

    Entitled to a free dinner and drink from a guy she hates. Angry that he should read her mind and know what she wants to hear.

  51. Whats wrong with some asian preference.

    And then she says:
    Don’t advertise your Asian Fetish by telling us about your Asian exs.

    If we talk about the exs is wrong. If we don’t talk about the exs is wrong too. Sigh…
    Women are really hard to understand.

  52. Ok, now, the question of the day: any of you guys in this thread is ACTUALLY one of the guys that dated Genevieve?
    Common, we wanna hear your side. πŸ™‚

  53. i couldnt keep up with this thread, so i cant comment πŸ™ I was looking for the word boobs somewhere in the comments but didnt find any :))

  54. I’ll read it into the weekend. A-S does get a little intellectual sometimes. But I agree, we need another gorgeous asian with boobs, on the frontpage. πŸ™‚

  55. daznlover, you say we need another gorgeous asian with boobs on the frontpage. What are you, some sort of asian fetishit or something? Is that all you could possibly be thinking about during a crisis like this. πŸ™‚ You too LawBoy, crazy fetishits. πŸ˜›

  56. gah where are all of the other girl commenters? what happened to rayne and cat-tien and kimnguyen? i feel like i’m the only female holdin’ it down.

    lee i agree that i should just expect to get hit on by non-asians who like asians. this is not easy to become accustomed to though. πŸ™

    olive yellotale: i don’t understand your implied point that AAG (or I?) was racist. you said that the more attached someone becomes to their race, the more easily offended they are. but, you see, so many of us don’t want to be tied down to their race, which is exactly why we get huffy when men come on to us with lines like the ones AAG said. we want to be seen as individuals, less as ‘asian.’ i don’t think AAG is saying that asian looks as an aesthetic preference is inherently wrong; the points she made in her article (and the point i am trying to make) all involve this affiliation of culture with being asian.

    at the same time, i don’t really agree with migaguiar and arf’s comments. it all comes down to the “why are you even bothered by this” issue. if the context is such that AAG describes, with a guy that is really forward about his love of all things asian (girls, food, culture), then my main point is to not assume that we’re going to be appreciative of the fact that you dig our culture so much since we’re all so different.

    this is an example of a benign case of asian preference. but if you say “what are you complaining about, they think you’re attractive” to all cases of u.s. men liking asian women, it would belie a history of objectification of asian women and the impact it had on how people viewed us. the infamous “me love you long time” in stanley kubrick’s “full metal jacket” is an indicator of the zeitgeist which permitted such perceptions of asian women

    too tired, must go to bed and discuss more comments tomorrow @___@;;;

  57. While I do think the anger Asian American girls harbour over this issue does indicate some input from their own end, I can completely understand why Christine and others might be annoyed and frustrated by these guys who just lump all Asian women together. As I said previously, the different ethnicities have quite different cultures and characters, and that is to say nothing of individual variation. Throw in a bit of western culture too (as in the case of Asians growing up in the west) and you’ve got a lot of potential for individual variety!

  58. I keep hearing a lot this argument of Asian fetishist in the US…
    When a guy tries to pick up a girl, why not label him a woman fetishist then?
    Being interested in Asian women means I am interested in the largest ethnic group on earth, what’s wrong with that?
    I think women like AAG have some identity crisis, and find it easier to blame on men… I can see how teared apart they must feel growing up in an Asian family in the US, values on both ends are quite a stretch.
    The guy in the example does sound like a douche though…

  59. Of course the guy in the example is uncool. But she chose to date him, meaning by her own admission she was half-way to boinking him. I can’t stand people who don’t take responsibility for their choices in life and blame others for their unhappiness. He should post here as Angry White Guy, complaining about some chick for whom he bought dinner & drinks, she never spoke up and expressed any displeasure at the conversation, she smiled & nodded politely throughout, he thought the date went ok. Would be interesting to hear his side of it, although he sounds like a total douchebag.

    I’ll never apologize for or explain my strong Asian preference. “Objectification” is a fightin’ word, thrown around quite often by feminists, but I’ve yet to receive an apt definition. Every woman I meet who catches my interest, I endeavor to know her as an individual. But to psuedo-liberal/universalists who claim to be “color-blind” and that “we are all the same”: that’s nonsense. Race does matter. There are marked differences among peoples and cultures. But I don’t see much difference between Asian-American and other American women: same chip on the shoulder just in a more attractive package, so I don’t date either of them.

    Sorry to ramble…

  60. This is a great exchange and I would be more than interested to hear some of Christine`s and the other girls dating horror stories. Most normal guys have a healthy dose of perv in them and most women are quite aware of it. A certain segment of any ethnic group is always going to find people from another ethnic group attractive,again no problem(this probably has something to do w/natural selection but that`s another argument) I think what may be making some of the girls sensitive here are experiences with what sevenduce called the subset creeps. I have some experience with them and I`m a middle age white guy! Let me explan,I have worked part-time as a delivery guy at 4 chinese takeout places in the past 10yrs. I have worked w/many counter-girls that range from 1/2 way decent looking to knockout to butt ugly. I`m here to tell you that there is a HUGE number of guys who have latched onto this asian thing in a far more unhealthy way then normal perv guys like myself and most people on this site who find asian women attractive…Talk about sending out signals,we can pick them out in a nanosecond in most cases . Ask any asian or asian-american girl who has a job that puts here in a captive exchange with the general public and I`m pretty sure that she can tell you about these SUPERCREEPS……I know that these types of people can be fixated on anything but it is a fairly common thing for asian women here in america to have this experience. Most of these guys are harmless,life-losers who have little chance of attracting any woman anyway and they are probably just going home to jerk off after thier creepy interaction but it is something that I believe is just one more thing that colors the initial meeting between any non-supermdel,non-asian guy w/ an asian girl HERE. Christine has a very valid point about how often this creepy kind of attention occurs and it is definitly something that asian girls know far more then thier white/black or hispanic counterparts. Great Site! Keep those pretty models comming.

  61. Christine: “So the other day, I went out on a date with a man. A White Man. THE
    MAN for my revolutionary brothers and sisters.”
    Racist comment #1.
    Why a “white man?” Why couldn’t she just say he was a man, and leave it at that?

    “Genevieve, I say to myself, because that’s my name, you’re with a Rice
    King. Stay Calm and try not to act overtly Asian and inadvertently
    getting him aroused. ”
    Racist comments #2 and #3
    Rice King? enough said. Here she is identifying herself as an “Asian”, why not simply a “woman ” who is on a date with a “man”

    “Rice King see Asian Fever, see Yellow Fever, see Asian Fetish, see
    G.I. Joe.”
    #4,5,6, and 7
    This sentence speaks for itself.

    “So then, I go out on a date with a whole other different guy. Yes,

    So, if I were a white guy (I just happen to be), and I was deeply identified with my “whiteness” (I’m not) I would be pretty offended by these terms. Right?

    Its not limited to ethnicity. Gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, weight, height, eye color, where they grew up, etc are just a few examples of attributes that people commonly identify themselves with.

    You, since you identify yourself as an “Asian,” would probably not get offended if someone called you a “nig__r”. You might think the person who called you this is stupid, but you wouldn’t be offended because you do not identify yourself as a black person.

    We all have hundreds of attributes. Why just settle for one or two to define ourselves? Its a huge limitation that you are placing on yourself.

    The bottom line is this: how you are within yourself defines the quality of your life, not some stranger’s implied opinion of you.

    So if some guy wants to hit on you because he likes your “Asian” look (or whatever), why should you care? Would it be any better or worse if he was hitting on you because of he likes short girls, or smart girls, or brunettes, or whatever?

    If you (I’m quoting you here, now Christine) “want to be seen as individuals, less as ‘asian.'”, then you have to SEE YOURSELF that way!

    Please explore this for yourself and see.

  62. I think the reason why the “Asian fetishist” seems more “creepy” is simply because Asians in the US are a minority among minorities. There are more blacks and hispanics and, as a general rule, people of said ethnic backgrounds have a longer history and are (like it or not) far more ingrained into the social psyche of Americans. They aren’t considered as “exotic” (yes, that dreaded “e” word).

    Then again, I know plenty of white guys who only date strictly white girls who are blonde and have ample “tracts of land”. I suppose that makes them part of a “fetish” as there aren’t as many big boobed blonde girls out there as you might think. Well, excluding California.

    On the flip-side, in Japan, there are *many* women who are infatuated with gaijin. I’m not sure if there’s a word for these types of women but they are, essentially, TODDs. Of course, there are a subset of these women who are “creepily” attracted to gaijin only because they are just that – foreigners. That said, there are many who are just simply attracted to the “exotic” look but are anything but creepy.

    Of course, the “Asian fetish” is analogous to men who love women with big boobs, women who like men with mustaches, gays who like hairy men, etc. etc.

    The point is that any one of these “preferences” can be classified as “fetishistic” depending on one’s point of view. What is disheartening about this entire thread is that somehow the “creepy subset” has become the de facto stereotype for anyone who has a strong desire for a specific ethnicity. Some guys (or girls as the case may be) may not even have a chance because the women they’re dating are overly sensitive as a result of bad experiences. The guy may be completely, harmlessly trying to make some light conversation and meanwhile he’s being torn to shreds and filed away for an angry blog.

    Yes, there are creeps out there. But are there more creepy guys who are into Asians than any other “genre” of female? I think not.


  63. I, for one, am happy that my gf is not attracted to Asian guys and has stated that she’s strictly interested in white guys (well, maybe I should make that singular… heh). Did I think anything of that when she told me? Yeah, I found it intriguing. I find it fascinating that some people are so attracted to certain “look” or nationality, or whatever.

    That said, I’m not an Asian female so I can’t speak from experience – but I would be more than interested in hearing of Christine’s (or other female AS members) stories. But there must be some positive, good dating tales, ne? ^_^

    Lastly, being a Canadian from the Toronto area, I wonder if stories like AAG posted are less frequent? The Asian population in Toronto is substantial (there are more Chinese than any other ethnicity!) so perhaps the “exotic-ness” factor is somewhat diluted.

  64. Olive Yellowtale: your quotes are not in themselves racist comments, but racial comments (which is different) – and necessarily so, given the subject of this discussion!

    sevendeuce: I think you make a lot of good points. Asian Australian girls (which can make up quite a large percentage of the population in some areas, such as where I live) don’t seem to have much of an issue with this. Christine lives in California, and let’s just say that the men there do not have a good repution – perhaps because she is (naturally) approached by the subset of Californian men who like Asians, she is wrongly attributing their “creepiness” to Asian fetshism, when it is in fact Californian men in general?

    I should point out that I’m sure there are many good men in California (including AS readers I’m sure!), but by reputation there does seem to be a relatively large percentage of “creeps” there.

  65. Gen is funny and she has some good points. I already expressed my opinion of yellow fever in my last post. I have also posted a comment regarding the whole Todd thing (search for that girl from Zack and Cody, I think that’s where I posted my comment). Anyway, a preference is one thing, but an Asian fetish/yellow fever is different and a bit racist. Personally, I think that placing a woman who has very slanted eyes that do not go w/ the rest of her face over a beautiful Asian woman w/ not so slanted eyes as the prime choice equals stereotyping! It seems like a majority of non-Asians go for the very exaggerated, grotesque Asian look, a look that I normally find very scary looking! Their whole expression is too angular and very unfeminine; some of these women look like he-she’s. I also hate to think that a guy is going for the girl, not because of her personality, but because she fits a stereotype.

  66. LOL, I have eased on Ms. Liu, who I used to not like a lot b/c she was so stereotypical. I am actually describing a lot of Asian females I see in the L.A. area who date white men; these are the women who probably cannot land an Asian man unless he is very white-washed or blind b/c they look like men themselves… harsh much! I now think Lucy Liu is decent, she would be a lot prettier if she didn’t look like she had strabismus, hence a majority of her poses are taken at an angle. It’s weird but I am a bit happy that I can attract Asian men as well as non-Asian men, which means that I ain’t no he-she looking chicka, LOL.

  67. Doc:
    OK. Maybe “racist” isn’t the perfect term here. The point is that if one makes a judgment on someone else based solely on ethnicity, I’m calling that racist. It doesn’t need to be hateful, does it? What exactly is the difference, and what term should I have used instead?

  68. Is I said, “racial” is the appropriate term. Racism does by definition have to be hateful or discriminatory; being racial is simply making theoretically objective judgements based on race. In other words, to be racist is clearly derogatory, whereas to be racial is theoretically more neutral.

  69. Although I assume that Gen was being hyperbolic in an effort to be humorous and attract attention (it worked!), I’m asking myself why did she choose to go out with this guy in the first place? Because of his personality — obviously not as she didn’t seem to know him well and he’s a douche bag. So, could it be his looks or money? How superficial.

    Secondly, those of us enjoying AS are attracted to Asian women for many reasons, but I would venture to say that exotic looks are a good part of it. Well, guess what — in my experience many Asian women consider non-Asians to be exotic, which could explain the Todd factor. Aslo, if someone has had success attracting a certain type of women in the past, that success will give them confidence, which in turn can lead to more success.

    And now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go eat a twinkie. Just kidding.

  70. why do you guys think it’s wrong for her to have gone out with this guy? she couldn’t have guessed from the start that the guy that asked her out was going to be a douche. it would’ve been ruder to leave in the middle of the dinner, i think. do you want your flaws explained to you on every first date with a girl, or would you rather have them go smoothly and somehow never hear from them again? assuming we’re mature adults, i don’t think you want the personality counseling session every first date.

  71. I don’t think it’s rude to leave in the middle of dinner. Life’s too short to waste time with those who make me sick, or for those I make sick, lol. If someone hates me after 40 minutes of a 3 hour date, I’d far prefer she say “I’m sorry but this isn’t working for me. I’m going to leave now. Thank you and good night.” She need not tell me off and be totally honest; just put the date out of its misery.

    Better that than smile and nod politely, not return my voicemails & emails, and then trash me on a blog after abusing my generosity.

    This kind of anger and passive-aggressiveness is why I vastly prefer women raised elsewhere.

  72. All this wasted bandwidth – over a FAKE blog entry! This ‘man’ is the worst mash-up of stereotypes – was waiting for the ‘too much hair gel’ blast. She didn’t know ANYTHING about this ‘guy’ before the date? Too funny. Just a way to lead to the ‘rice king’, ‘Todd’ silliness and flame away at the evil white males, the most powerful group in the world.

    This was probably written by a bitter Asian male whose only significant relationship is with his right or left hand – or an Asian female who would love to get asked out by anyone, 18 to 99 yrs old of any ethnic group.

  73. hi, like i can save all of you very pretty ladies alot of time, and maybe just let one fantasy of mine come true,first off, i know nothing about the asian culture,i will be very happy to learn what ever i am taught by who ever wants to teach.most importantly, if one of you ladies would like to see a man fall over and faint, come sit in my lap and just rest your head on my shoulder.i will sit really still and continue dreaming of us just laying next to each other hopefully nude and holding each other.lastly,if one of you women were to ask me to lick you in any fashion, dont matter where or when? i would be glad, hair or not,i would enjoy silently sitting on a couch,with one of you asian ladies sitting on my lap, resting your head against my shoulder.listening to you breath.i will say nothing, and offer what ever you askfor.

  74. hooker is probably the easier option judging from that gushing monologue. i hope he doesn’t proposition girls like this in real life XD

  75. frank26, save the cybersex fantasy posting for, lol. Reading your wanking visions is creeping me out, as if I am a witness and party to them.

  76. Christine,

    I’m not saying that Gen was wrong for going out with this guy. I was merely trying to point out that she was upset that this guy might be liking her only as an Asian woman instead of for herself, but it’s a first date so how would he know her yet — and how would she know him? Obviously there must have been something about this guy that attracted Gen, and assuming it wasn’t his (obnoxious) personality, it was probably something superficial as well. Of course, as someone pointed out, this whole scenario is quite possibly made up anyway, but that doesn’t mean these discussions are pointless.

    BTW, you are obviously a very intelligent young lady, and not too weird you out or anything, but if I seen you in my younger, thinner, single days, I would probably have lusted after you silently from afar:-)

  77. I am a global traveler and call East and West home. I say this because I have a good perspective on this– all of this mess comes from California, one of the most distorted places on the planet when it comes to race. It is hard for me to imagine an Asian woman in Singapore, London, or even New York whining about a man’s attraction to her Asian qualities. Either you like the man or you do not. In either case, you are still an Asian woman, and for people to disregard that is what is rude.

    Anyone who has lived in Asia knows that making assumptions based on appearance is much more rampant there than in the United States. If an Asian woman feels insulted that a white guy likes her because of her ethnicity, than she can find another white guy. I suspect, however, the day will come when she will search for more meaning and substance in her life, and this will involve asking questions about her family and heritage. Maybe then will she realise her arrogance and sense of entitlement in expecting to be treated as “raceless” and “cultureless.” This is just not reality, and sounds more like a personal identity issue than anything else.

    My advice to the white men out there: if you like Asian women, date the CONFIDENT and secure ones.

  78. I think A. F. Fan makes some very good points. As I say above, this does appear to be a largely Californian phenomonon, and probably has more to do with the people there than the phenonomonon of white men simply being attracted to Asian girls.

  79. wingsfan19: hey, thanks for clarifying! but maybe gen was just being nice and giving the guy a chance. i think it would’ve been worse if she just said no upon first impression without giving him a chance to show that he was a nice guy. he obviously screwed that part up pretty hard, but at least gen was nonjudgmental enough to permit for the apparent dorkiness of this guy. this could’ve gone both ways – he could’ve actually been a real keeper and she wouldn’t have written this angry blog, but i think that a lot of the frustration she has lies in just optimistically giving guys chances. that’s at least how i was able to relate to her. if she were being superficial though, then you’re right in that she maybe shouldn’t have gone out with the guy at all. …not saying she deserved his doucheyness, but she could’ve made some wiser decisions!

    btw thanks for the compliment; i think i sound more intelligent on the internet than in person…probably because i have that whole socal asian thing going on.

    a.f. fan: i’m not sure i agree with your comment, a.f. fan. i feel like, with your logic, then we will be perpetually tied to our ethnicities. olive yellotale made a good point: we should be seen as individuals, rather than as beings described by some taxonomy like gender, race, class, or sexuality. how do you account for immigration, miscegenation, and the integration/naturalization of foreigners in any country? as time progresses, the concepts of race/ethnicity will need to exhibit great plasticity to have relevance in society; otherwise, they will become obsolete. when we can no longer identify cultural traits with peoples’ appearances. when immigrants choose to shed their own culture or heritage to adopt another country’s, do you consider this arrogant? please correct me if i am missing your point, but it seems that you are saying that we have an undeserved ‘sense of entitlement’ when we want to be treated as, say, americans, instead of asians (and what cultural traits accompany that term). ignorance of your heritage is very different from conscious adoption of a new heritage to replace one’s own.

    you’re right in that the term ‘asian’ still possesses a lot of relevance now, but those who choose to shed their heritage should not be labeled as arrogant because they either were brought up this way or chose to do so. i think we should adapt our assumptions of people accordingly, instead.

  80. Christine, I think you surely must sound very intelligent in person, given that you clearly actually are very intelligent. πŸ˜‰

    I think you are missing the point of A. F. Fan’s post though, but I will let him speak for himself (as he seems eminently capable of doing so).

  81. Even though race & ethnicity are constantly evolving & shifting social & political constructs, they do in fact exist. To deny that is ignoring the real world. To say love & attraction (or any other preference/taste/way of relating) should not see color: nonsense. It’s part of appearance, how we process information about the world. Appearance matters. Race matters. We’ll never be “color blind”. Of course discrimination is wrong & must be stopped.

    AAG must have followed some odious advice I saw in an article: “Go out on as many dates as possible, even if you don’t like the guy. It’s good practice for when it is the right guy.” I see AAG’s sense of entitlement & arrogance as an American woman thing that transcends being Asian or any other group identity.

  82. luvjgirls, i’m not arguing that we should ignore race and ethnicity, but i am saying that we should not associate cultural traits with them. i think that was AAG’s frustration – the guy she was dating was making assumptions of her heritage based on her appearance. as you say, you correlate the sense of entitlement AAG experiences with american culture, not an asian culture. though i don’t quite agree with this, this is an example of the point i am trying to make – her being asian does not imply anything about her culture or heritage. you’re right that appearance distinctions will always exist, but i don’t think that that should necessarily entail anything further about that person.

  83. Sorry for the late reply, and I appreciate the civil dialogue here.

    Christine: I appreciate your making the distinction between appearance and heritage, a difference I failed to emphasise. Please allow me to elaborate on a few points.

    Regardless of ethnicity and culture, an important aspect of mature dating is being able to signal exactly who you are, and make it clear exactly what/who you are looking for. That is my problem with AAG’s behaviour. She doesn’t want to have to communicate about culture and ethnicity– some VERY important issues that are very real. She wants her dates to automatically see these issues as she sees them, which puts her dates into an unwinnable position. Many Asian women closely identify with their cultures. How is a man to know unless she tells him? Her arrogance isn’t that she has chosen a cultural identity– that is beside the point. Her arrogance is that she thinks she shouldn’t have to communicate it, and her self-entitlement is that culture shouldn’t be brought up.

    I think the difference between appearance and heritage is the core of AAG’s frustration, as you astutely identified. Certainly, if her date behaved as she described, than he is a cultural ignoramus. However, I do believe that her handling of the situation displayed an insecurity and certain immaturity. I have known of many Americanised or Anglicised women from Asia who are more than capable of stating so. I have heard many times such things as: “If you are looking for someone who speaks Japanese, then I will disappoint you” or “I prefer hamburgers to kimchi.” That shows confidence and maturity.

    To add a final point, “Asian” as an ethnicity isn’t exactly accurate or fair. A typical Japanese woman and a typical Cambodian woman have vastly different cultural experiences, yet both are labeled as “Asian.” This occurs particularly in the United States, where racial categorisation supercedes one’s cultural identification. I suspect this is a significant factor driving cultural ignorance among many Americans, and the behaviour of AAG’s date. However, she is still on the hook for her own behaviour.

    Thanks again for the discussion!

  84. It is gratifying to learn that my interpretation of your original comments appears to have been on the money – once again I think you make some very good points. Now it’s over to Asian Sirens’ own angry Asian American girl. πŸ˜‰

  85. A.F. Fan: Haha, touche! πŸ™‚ I agree with your point about communication. I agree that in the states, this is a problem for many Asian women, including myself! I learned a lot from your response, so thank you very much πŸ™‚

    However, I believe the guys are equally responsible for not imposing cultural traits as the women are in communicating their culture. If the guys did not impose cultural traits but spent time to get to know the girl, then it would be pretty clear after a few dates what kind of personality the girl had. I understand needing to communicate the culture she identifies with if they’re in a situation where the guy cannot possibly guess or know, but it seems that in most cases there will be many opportunities for the guy to ascertain whether he’s dating an americanized Asian or an ‘asian’ Asian.

    For instance, this date probably would’ve gone a lot more smoothly if the guy asked her whether or not she really cared for country’s history, or whether her heritage was of great value to her. I mean, I think/hope AAG would’ve been glad to answer these questions. If the guy didn’t get it, then you are right – it would’ve been AAG’s responsibility to politely say “sorry, I’m more into hamburgers than kimchi” as you said.

    I also agree with your point about “Asian” as a poor term. This was a point I was trying to emphasize earlier. Not only are there several ethnicities that fall under the “Asian” category, there are several ways by which these ethnicities have immigrated to the US, creating for true diversity.

    Thanks for the great discussion, as well!

  86. I do think Christine makes a key point here: we should be sensitive to what kind of person we are dealing with. For example, when I deal with people in Sunnybank, I very frequently say thankyou in Mandarin. They love it. But when I’m dealing with somebody who is clearly more westernised, I don’t. (Sachiko is an example of a quite westernised Asian girl who always prefers to speak in English, and I’m sure the same would be true of Christine and AAG as well!)

  87. omg she’s funny lol you guys should feature HER on here hhahahaha she’ll get hit on by so many more “white” men that love asian women lol

  88. Hi,

    i am new here. I have read most of comments and here are my thoughts :

    I think AAG is funny,
    I also think he guy she described is ignorant (he obviously knows pretty much nothing about asian culture).

    I think cristine and gen are offended by this type of people because they see themselves as american. Both crisitne and gen argue about the fact that Asian is too broad. I think it is not the point here. They are offended because they don’t want to be consedered as asian before being considered as a woman or american or whatsoever.

    am i right ?

  89. And what do you call a creep ?

    there are big differences between preference and fetish (one has a strong sexual conotation).

    But even having an asian or anything else fetish doesn’t make that guy be a creep.
    (allthough it strongly means that this guy would see you as a mean to satisfy his sexual desires, which i understand annoying)

  90. We all use each other to satisfy our sexual desires. We may package and explain it in more polite presentable terms, but stripped bare, that’s the honest essence of it.

    It really annoys me when posters on a board try to speak for and interpret other posters as you are doing, Stephane.

    AAG is a bitter bitch and I would never date such a girl. I’ve rejected a few of that flavor.

  91. Ah, I have to wince at that. Reminds me of when people ask me where I am from and I say Colorado and they say “really? my (relation/friend) is from Colorado!” I am so tempted to say “Really? Whats their name? Maybe I know them!”
    I also have to look at both sides of the coin here. Yes, I can see how annoying it would be for some poor sap to display in one setting all his knowledge -perceived or otherwise- on any particular ethnicities culture and/or history, on the other hand, what is so wrong with that? Many people pick up on some cultural study other than their own for a plethora of reasons and sadly one of them may be to impress a member of the opposite (or in some cases, same) sex. I started learning Vietnamese to piss off my father and stepfather and it kind of took off from there. 20+ years past and a minor in east asian studies since and I feel I have satisfied my intellectual curiosity. I am in no way vain enough to think I speak better or know more than any native from X country, but I have a better appreciation for things. That someone from country X dates someone who is not from there and who has a more-than-passing knowledge of the language, culture, or what have you is just karma. good or bad is yet to be determined. My wife is Taiwanese, we eat at Chinese restaurants and go to Chinese art showings and watch Chinese movies only so she can have, at least some reconnect with her former life in Taiwan. That and its the only cuisine she will order and eat without fuss. I speak to her in Chinese not to impress her but only because it makes things easier for her to understand sometimes. Not that my Chinese is great, but the idea does come across.
    To wrap it up, so some girl goes out with someone who knows some obscure thing about her place of origin or culture or what have you and makes it known, is it really that bad? I can agree with her getting annoyed about him purposefully stating the ethnicity of his exes though. That is like saying “I am not a racist, I date (people of color here) all the time!”

  92. i always laugh at asians who think their culture is off limits.

    koreans will say, “oh… you can’t understand… you’re not korean,” to all non-koreans.

    japanese will say, “oh… you can’t understand… you’re not japanese,” to all non-japanese.

    and so on and so forth with all the “minorities” of the world.

    but everyone understands the white male right??

    please… the classical music you learned on piano when you were a little girl – white.

    blue jeans, cars, radios, blah blah blah… white.

    SO MANY parts of “your culture” are from white society, and yet you think “your culture” is off limits to whites discussing?

    i don’t think so.

    be my guest, get “love” tattooed on your butt-cheek… i don’t have more of a right to that word than you just because i’m a native american and you’re from asia!! let’s have some consistency people huh?

    people always like to act like others are “outsiders,” or “posers,” or a “fetish-ist” as angry gen calls them. but in reality, angry gen (as all the others) are just insecure people who run with similar looking insecure people (be it skaters, punks, asians or whatever).

    i have a 5’10” blond girlfriend from the ukraine… does that make me a russian “fetish-ist…” of course not. and guess what, i try to learn bits and pieces of her language, and she REALLY appreciates it (especially when she’s drunk).

    yes, it gets annoying when i tell people i’m from new york and then they go on and on about all the friends or weddings they attended in the city, but that’s just part of life – looking to make connections.

    i do agree that the stereotypical white dude who “loves” asian chicks is mad annoying. but no more so than the stereotypical asian girl who thinks she’s a victim and a minority and that outsiders just don’t belong working their way into “her” culture.

  93. you dont understand cause you’re not asian πŸ™‚ …from your tone, i can just guess you are from NY πŸ™‚

  94. thank you dr. lee.

    also, i can say “i DO understand,” namely because i AM from New York.

    being from that melting pot of a city, i’ve met ALL kinds of people. and all my mandarin (Taiwanese) friends feel they are misunderstood. all my South Korean friends in k-town feel they’re misunderstood. all my japanese friends feel they’re misunderstood. all my Puerto-Rican friends etc, etc, etc.

    i honestly can’t tell you how many times i’ve stood between my Korean friends from jersey, and my Japanese friends from Brooklyn… and broken up fights when they get drunk and bring up their grandparents and the occupation.

    you know what LawBoy… i was in a Japanese restaurant with a Japanese girl, and a Korean buddy. and after a couple drinks my buddy got UPSET with me because i kept lifting my rice and soup bowl off the table. finally he slammed down his Asahi and he said, “you know, that’s really bad manners in Korea… you shouldn’t do that.”

    and i said, “well Dave, we’re in an effin JAPANESE restaurant… don’t tell me i should be following your customs.” to which he said, “you don’t understand A-hole!!” and walked out.

    really now, who was the A-hole?? me for doing what Japanese do in a Japanese restaurant? or him for thinking i should abide by HIS rules just because he’s “asian” and i’m “white” and therefore i should follow Korean custom in a JAPANESE restaurant??

    that’s just one of my experiences as a new yorker… but that’s stuff i deal with constantly as an “un-educated” white male. who “doesn’t get it because i’m not asian.” so believe you me, i am VERY used to it by now… i just try to keep the peace between all my friends and enjoy life. and that was the point to what i posted originally.

    so i guess all i’m saying is, “lighten up + get over your insecurities,” and the world would be a much happier place. yes “asian” is a broad term, just as “white” is… but get over it!!! keep an open mind and just learn as much as you can… just make sure not to spill everything you know to a girl on the first date like that poor douche did to angry gen, and you should be alright.


  95. i am sure you have a point cyber… and of course i am just pulling your chains…it is just i can’t concentrate too long on these deep discussion with out boobs and ass in the picture….sorry :))

  96. I kinda feel better about being a white guy in america now after reading cyberpun’s comments. I even took to wearing a flav-a-flav clock around my neck and du-rag on my head to hide my whiteness for a couple of months. I feel a little silly now. WORD!

  97. HAHA! i rocked the flav’s clock too. man, those were the days when things were fun in a stupid way!! lot different than a platinum grill and 70″ wheels on your escalade.

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