Perhaps the most consistent cause of controversy in the fora at Asian Sirens is the use of potentially racist terms. So as there seems to be some confusion over what we will allow and what we won’t (and why), I thought it would be a good idea to devote a post to the subject. There are basically three categories of terms here: the ones we will allow, the ones we definitely won’t allow, and the ones that aren’t so clear-cut. I shall now give examples of each, and try to explain our policy on them.What we definitely won’t allow
This one’s pretty straightforward: the sorts of terms that racists use in a clearly derogatory way to put down other races e.g. ‘slant-eye’, ‘slope-head’, ‘chink’, ‘nip’ etc.
What we will allow
For a term to fall into this category, it has to (a) not have a good PC synonym (otherwise we will use that instead) and (b) not be the kind of term that racists have used in a clearly derogatory way to put down other races (i.e. it can’t be the kind of term that would fall into the category of what we definitely won’t allow).
An example of a term that we’ve allowed in the past – but which we now have a PC synonym for – is ‘primitive’. Although we used this term in a purely descriptive, scientific and objective way, it nevertheless caused offence to many of our readers. And given the negative connotations this term often has, that was perfectly understandable. Hence my long term plea for a good PC synonym. Fortunately (courtesy of Adam Yurman) we now have one: ‘indigenous’. Hence, we will now be encouraging people to use this term instead (where its use is necesary).
There is one other controversial term without a good PC synonym, however: ‘oriental’. In the context of a site like Asian Sirens, the use of this word is frequently necessary: for example, to distinguish the “women of oriental appearance” that we prefer here from other Asians (e.g. the very racially and physically distinct people of the Indian subcontinent). So the usually cited synonym ‘Asian’ is actually far too general, and apparently causes offence to some in the UK!
Indeed, in the UK, the word ‘Asian’ is almost never applied to the people who are the primary subject of this site (see how awkward it is to avoid this term?); they use ‘oriental’ itself almost exculsively! What’s more, this term is only considered offensive in the US (and not in any other country), despite the very large populations of this ethnic group in the UK, Canada, Australia and throughout the world. Hence, there is a huge contradiction between how this term is viewed in the US and how it is viewed in the rest of the world.
So what to do? Fortunately, new Asian Sirens member Christine – who is very well-read and knowledgeable on issues of Asian American integration – was able to cite the following from the American Heritage Book of English Usage:
It is worth remembering, though, that Oriental is not an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. It is most objectionable in contemporary contexts and when used as a noun, as in “the appointment of an Oriental to head the commission”. In these cases Asian (or a more specific term such as Vietnamese, Korean, or Asian American, if appropriate) is the only acceptable term. But in certain historical contexts, or when its exotic connotations are integral to the topic, Oriental remains a useful term.
Hence, backed by the authority of the American Heritage Book of English Usage (and in the absence of a good synonym), I will continue to use ‘oriental’ in the way that I have in the past i.e. “when its exotic connotations are integral to the topic”, and will allow others to do likewise.
What isn’t so clear-cut
The key term that falls into this category is ‘twinkie’. Given that it doesn’t apply to an entire race as such (only a subset thereof), it can’t really be called a racist term in the strictest sense. However, as it does only apply to a subset of a particular race, it can still be taken as being racist. On the other hand, it is often used in a good-natured way, as in “you’re such a twinkie!”. So what to do? After much consideration, I have decided on the following:
(1) Using twinkie is okay when it is clearly in a good-natured way.
(2) Using twinkie is okay when it is clearly applicable to the person in question – the only clear example I can think of on Asian Sirens so far is Michelle Malkin, or perhaps Tila Tequila.
(3) When it isn’t clearly applicable to the person in question, and it isn’t used in a good-natured way, twinkie isn’t okay.
Related terms, such as ‘AAA’ and ‘Todd’, will be handled in the same way. However, if you can think of a better way to police these terms – or indeed any potentially racist term at AS – I am very open to feedback. Post your comments below!
And a big thankyou to Christine for her help in clarifying my understanding of these issues!
American Heritage Book of English Usage, not American Heritage Dictionary, I’m sorry!
You’re welcome. And, that same quote is also on wikipedia for anyone else to look at.
Thanks Christine – just updated my post.
wait wait…whats a twinkie?
Yellow on the outside, white on the inside – as in an Asian who denies their own heritage and wants to think they’re white. Michelle Malkin is a particularly extreme example.
what, a post with out boobies? :))
I couldn’t think of an appropriate pic – maybe Christine has a pic of herself studying or something? Ideally in the nude. 😉
i second that motion…:)) come on christine throw doc and me a bone:))
[COMMENT DELETED]
Your comment was a serious breach of our posting guidelines bobofrie – strike 1.
I have to disagree with Christine on the use of oriental and refer her to read up on Edward Said. The use of oriental is inherently laced with colonialism, racism, exoticism, and subjugation. Given that there a readily available term that can be used to differentiate between geographical regions of Asia, it seems that there is no need to use it. By that, I mean East Asian, West Asian, South Asian, SE Asian. As for why the British don’t consider it to be offensive? Well, the colonial legacy that originated such terms is still very much in place in the attitudes and worldview of most Britons. Moreover, the term Oriental does not, as you seem to believe, refer to only those who reside in East Asian areas, but also refers to the Middle East. By your own criteria, there is no need for to use this term. And if you can’t see how exoticizing a race is offensive, again, read up on Said. Here’s a place to start: http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Orientalism.html
On a personal note, every time I hear it, I hear the even more racist derivative ‘Ornamentals’ as though spoken by an old white southerner.
It must really, really bother PaulBlume to hear that awful horrible word. Just breathe a little and it will all go away.
i really don’t want to comment on this thread but you touched a hot button with me…..why make an issue when there is not an issue…i have been with asian sirens (which in your terms as described here dr. lee is racist) for over 3 years and really have not seen this non-issue that you are making an issue of….there are racists all over this world and then there are racists right in your backyard….and i was taught to ignore to ignorant — which racists are…ignorant….so why create a non-issue in a site that has been around for years? unless of course there is some other motivating political reason….political correctness pretty much means keep your mouth shut and your thoughts to yourself because it is only the real ‘prostitutes’ (like jackson, sharpten, clinton, bush, et all) that state what you can say….just like mao, hitler, stalin’s world….instead why not just keep the BS PC out and let us all enjoy the beauty of asian/oriental women as we have for years?
divermike
oh btw….i am married to an oriental/asian/indonesian hot babe….and she loves it as i do too!!
Roger what DiverMike just said. What we need now are some boobs.
I will respond to PaulBlume’s post point by point:
1) The opinions expressed here are not Christine’s, but rather mine and the American Heritage Book of English Usage, although Christine helped a great deal with my research.
2) If we need to read up on Edward Siad to figure out why we should be offended by the word oriental, then it obvioulsy can’t be very offensive. Nobody needs to read up on anything to know that ‘nigger’ is offensive, for example.
3) Colonialism – and the racism that goes along with it – was a shameful period in human history. However, it is not encapsulated by the word oriental; this was merely a descriptive term to refer to a particular region of the world, and the people thereof. Why project all the evils of colonialism onto this one word, and not others that would be more appropriate (such as colonialism itself)?
4) Saying that exoticism and foreignness is inherently wrong is political correctness out of control. It’s just a simple fact: anything that is foreign is, well, foreign and exotic. There’s just no getting around this. What is wrong is saying that this makes them by nature inferior, but that’s a whole other issue (and the real one).
5) Your suggested synonyms are too specific; we need a catch-all phrase with the same breadth as oriental for it to have the same usefulness.
6) If the British don’t find oriental offensive because they still have a colonialist mind set, then why is it that nobody else outside the US finds it offensive either? The US is the odd country out here, not the UK. What’s more, your suggestion is logically absurd: it is the victims of colonialism who would be offended by it, not the colonialists themselves! If what you say is true, then Asians in the UK should be more offended by this term than anyone.
7) What matters in using the term oriental today, is how it is understood today. Nobody includes the middle east in their use this term any more. Once again, in its modern definition, it is a very convenient catch-all term to cover a distinct ethnic group, for which there is no good synonym.
8) ‘Ornamentals’ clearly is a racist term, as it was used in a derogatory way to put down another race (although I have to admit that I have never heard of this term before). That does not make oriental a racist term, however.
And DiverMike, I personally absolutely agree with you! However, some of our readers have made an issue out of this, so I have to clearly state our editorial policy, and our reasons for applying it.
ornamentals???? what the ‘f…’ is that??? a new made up term so one can say their PC crud to a racist slime ball or vise a versa????
i am 50 some odd years old and have traveled throughout this blue globe of a marble….and never heard that word spoken….neither has my wife who grew up in that ‘ornamental’ world…..(and BTW…she is laughing her cute butt off at this thread!!)
i suggest you all get out of the created PC world of the US, UK, and Europe….and get into the real world hear and now….because the rest of the world is laughing at us!!!
DiverMike
PS: Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder….and the beauty of the orient is evident to anyone who has sight, smell, feelings….in other words…get back to the subject of Asian Sirens!!
Of course.Machelle Malkin,must be used to show all that is bad with Asian-American women. She deals in facts and to liberals facts mean nothing. How dare her be more than a car show model.
We sure have spent a long time discussing these things.
And, Dr. Lee, on the word Oriental, you keep saying you don’t see a viable synonim. Well, just because there isn’t a sole synonim, it doesn’t mean that we should keep using the first word, that really seems to offend some people. No sole synonim? Well, then let’s find other group of synonims that will work. A bit more troubling, but no offense at least.
Oriental, asian, south east asian, they all have flaws. But I will refrain from using something that really offends some people. It may be innocent to me, but since it’s offending to a large group of people, I guess we should lighten up and strike the use of it (and try to politely make other people avoid it), so that we can focus on the beauties and less on the syntax… 🙂
Like the American Heritage Book states: Oriental is ‘most objectionable in contemporary contexts’. Since we are not dealing with History, but beauty, I think this term should go. Asian, south east asian, east asian, they can do fine. Or if necessary lets make a new term:
ChiThaiPhiVietIndoMal (add some more countries…).
Is this acceptable to devise a new word? 🙂
Tom, Michelle is a hottie and a smart gal, but she is into politics, meaning they have their own game. And most of all, politics have big flaws in their arguments.
Michelle herself has screwed up on some facts on the iraq war. So let’s forget the politics, because as far as I see it, facts are mostly bend in politics. It’s funny that you mention facts in a political comment. 🙂
What I regret about Michelle is that she has some negative attitude towards a lot of things. It’s just depressive to pay attention to that kind of politics, either liberal or conservative.
Very disapointing that you are not embarrassed by openly acknowledging you are PC.
It is clear that Christine and the others who whorship at the feet of Edward Said are looking for offense. It is symptomtic of the Asians in the U.S. who want to be as oppressed as blacks. It is clear that Christine wants to be the new member of the Justice Brothers, or the new Justice Sister, the Rev. Christine and Reverend Al and Reverend Jesse.
Like the Reverends Al and Jesse, Edward Said made a career about whinin how terrible American and Western culture was. Of course, he refused to go live in those beautiful Arab countries where dictators and fanatics rule, where incompetance and ignorance live. An appologist for terrorism and hatred.
Seems Asian Sirens is decending into the Hate America First crowd. What next, photos of Cindy Sheehan? What do you call a self hating white? Not twinkie, not banana, what fruit or snack applies?
Or is it just plain Quisling?
Also, is it mandatory now that Asian women must support illegal immigration, high taxes, and Osama Bin Laden? Is that what you have against Michelle Malkin?
Or, more interesting, is Christine a hater of Michelle Malkin because Michelle has the temerity to speak out against the Japanese war crimes in the Philippines? Just who has Christine sold out to?
I must say, I certainly love them oriental/asian women the best. Sointanly my favorite of the bunch. No racism noted, I think. Zoiks!
johnnie, if you read above, I did not say anything about Edward Said. It was suggested by PaulBlume that I should read up on Edward Said because he thought “oriental” to be very offensive.
I would also be careful in aligning Dr. Lee’s views with mine. Though we discussed these issues, it does not mean that we wholly, 100% agree with each other. So far, Dr. Lee and I have discussed the usage of the word ‘twinkie.’ So, before you call both of us out for anything, I would suggest more carefully reading the post.
We used Michelle Malkin as an example, not because I (we?) hate her politics, but because she is an example where the use of ‘twinkie’ would be directly and obviously applicable since most comments spoken about her would bring to light her westernised background. A lot of her views suggest that, without being born in the US or having been US-educated, she would not feel the same way. On the other hand, in cases where it is not so clear that it would be directly applicable to the post, we refrain from using the term.
On the term “oriental,” I see Paul Blume’s point on exoticism. This idea that there is an “East” and a “West” and an element of foreignness still tinges our perceptions of Asia today. Unfortunately, it is an extremely subtle racial term therefore I think that few people tend to ‘pick up’ on it, but at the same time – don’t you think that the term ‘Asian American,’ which lumped all of the Asian races together after the Civil Rights era, is just as delimiting? Isn’t Asian panethnicity, in general, just as problematic?
I agree with daznlover that perhaps a different term could be substituted because a lot of people still find “oriental” offensive.
But, insofar as the word itself is concerned, it also appears that most people have forgotten why they take offense to the word ‘oriental’ and it is for this reason – peoples’ ignorance on it, and how it failed to pervade most countries’ vernacular as a biting racial slur (e.g. wop, dago, chink, nigger) – that Dr. Lee decided to permit its use.
I’m sure that the other posters might have their own views on the word “oriental,” so I want to remind you that if we don’t use it, then Dr. Lee has nothing to moderate. I personally refrain from it and I am sure a lot of the other members here do as well; but, theoretically, if this word were to be used, this is the policy on it.
One more point, johnnie:
“it is clear that Christine…it is clear that Christine….is Christine a hater… Just who has Christine sold out to?”
Listen, johnnie. You already began your argument way in the left-field because you incorrectly read the previous comments and thought that I was the one talking about Edward Said. Obviously, I am not. So, already, you’ve misquoted me.
Secondly, Johnnie, I ALSO never said anything about Michelle Malkin until my last comment! I wash my hands of her politics, completely! I don’t know anything about this girl, but I’m saying only that calling her a twinkie wouldn’t be too far of a mental stretch.
Before you go making these wild claims about my politics, or -rather- blowing your own tangential political load all over this website, why don’t you think at first if what you said has ANYTHING at all to do with the topic at hand?
whoa, sorry, i just kind of made these comments quickly and forgot i made the edward said point twice. oops. :/
If twinkie, used in a derogatory way, would be considered racist, then I am curious what this post by Stripes be considered?
“TODD is the generic name of any dorky White guy you see with a hot Asian chick.” “Sometimes I think about printing up a delightfully rude and offensive tee to highlight this travesty.”
http://tinyurl.com/29okzy
If “Twinkie” is racist then TODD, in the usage by STRIPES, is equally racist. I’m not sure I agree either is really racist but I think any derogatory speech should be discouraged here whether it is racist or not. There are a lot of potential visitors of this site, even those that STRIPES would consider to be a TODD (myself probably included). I’ll admit, I was offended by the post, at least for a few seconds. I got over that quickly though.
What about GOOK? Where does that fit? Let’s not forget ZIPPERHEAD either. Is it derogatory to say someone has YELLOW FEVER?
This is silly.
Why is nip on the banned list? If I call a person whose nationality is British a ‘BRIT’ is that a problem?
I think Asians should re-claim the vernacular they find offensive and embrace it. Worked for blacks or should I call them African Americans?
Interesting discussion (notwithstanding johnnie’s non sequitor ad hominum attack a la the Bushies on anyone who disagrees with Malkin as being on the side of the terrorists).
Nip has been extensively used with offensive intent by racists.
As for Todds: I was offended for a splitsecond, then I laughed, perhaps in self-recognition. =)
Oriental was long used to describe the “other”, meaning the mysterious, exotic, probably dangerous, sneaky non-WASP. This meant pretty much anyone from Jews, Turks, to Iranians Afghans & east Asians.
Should any words be made illegal? No. But the owners of a forum have the right to make it a place free of racist terms.
Yes, the way Stripes uses ‘twinkie’ and ‘TODD’ in this post would now be considered unacceptable – that is one of the reasons I am anouncing this policy. However, this policy was not in place at that time, so it would be unfair to penalise him for it.
And regarding Michelle Malkin, it is clear from the posts above that the people who support her politics have some trouble with reading and facts. However, in the context of this post, it is only about the applicability of ‘twinkie’ to people like her.
Oh yes, regarding ‘nips’: as luvjgirls says, it has been used by racists extensively with racist intent. And I really think that is the key here: intent. Has anyone ever said “hey you oriental!” with racist intent? Of course not! It’s too big a word for racists to get their tongue around – note that all classically racist terms contain only one or two syllables. 😉
And once again, the views expressed in this post are mine, not Christine’s. She just helped me a lot with my research in forming them.
Daffy_Duck, Stripes’ comments in that post (the Brenda Song) post were precisely what started this debate on potentially racist terms at A-S.com.
Thanks Dr. Lee for the boldface clarification in your last comment. This has been a messy affair!
Yes, I apologise that a few of our posters didn’t read before they wrote, and accused you unfairly. I hope that doesn’t put you off posting here in the future!
I think the African Americans you are talking about, Errol – the ones which call each other ‘niggers’ – represent only one kind of African American in the US, precisely those that have previous generations also in the US, at some point in slavery. But, did you ever think about African refugees from Nigeria? Do you think that they call each other ‘niggers’ in jest? I think the first flaw in your argument is that you assume that all ‘blacks’ are the same – but, they, too have varied backgrounds.
On the process of ‘re-claiming:’ Thus far, “Asians” haven’t even established undisputed unity – we are still extremely segregated, which can be seen in the formation of our enclaves. There are Japanese enclaves, Korean enclaves, Chinese enclaves, etc. so I highly doubt that in a few years’ time, the Chinese immigrant is going to be visiting his Korean immigrant neighbor’s house and saying “sup chink!” in jest. What I’m trying to say is, the patterns of Asian immigration to the US are variegated and the pathways by which Asians come vary widely by ethnicity, and cannot be summed up easily like African American [involuntary] migration before the Civil War. Asians are still very stratified – there are Chinese capitalists and business entrepreneurs, at the same time as Laotian refugees. Maybe this will account for why we haven’t precisely ‘internalized’ and ’embraced’ the terms that we’ve found racially offensive. To compare these two (African Americans and Asian Americans) is naive.
Furthermore, what is positive about “embracing” these racially offensive terms? Do you see Asians emerging to parity with other races by internalizing pejorative terms used to describe them?
This is a very good and interesting point Christine!
I have so may hings to say. I’ll start with a quote.
“…nigger, nobody caeres when Eddie Murphy or Richard Prior says it. Why? They’re niggers! There is nothing wrong with any word in and of itself, it’s the racist asshole using it you have to worry about.”
-George Carlin
George makes a lot of sense here. If somebody uses a word but doesnt mean any serious harm, lay off!
And to you all who have been offended by some of the posts at this site: This is the internet. Get the fuck over it or log off.
Oh, and who really does find oriental offensive? No americans, asians, or asian americans I know. Its a bunch of crap, some people probably marked it offensive just to file a lawsuit and make a quick buck.
I believe that this site will not loose anything because this racist issue. I also agree not to use the term in this site anymore. it will make better.
All of us have to has one bottom line that beautiful woman not because her race. If the beauty comes from one race in this world meaning there will be no any miss world contest nor miss pegeant nor anything such as like this.
Let’s make this life has more colors without racist.
What Christine says is correct. There is no point to be doubt. Thank you.
I agree with jdrevenge – many people get too hung up on words themselves these days, but what really matters is how they are used. That is why we allow the use of terms like oriental and twinkie, as long as they are used in the right way. When a group of people feels oppressed, they have a tendency to pick up on a word to symbolise that oppression. And in the absence of anything else, it seems that a group of Asians picked up on oriental for that purpose. But as it has never really been used as a racial slur in practice, it hasn’t been widely adopted.
i just learned what TODD is, shame its my middle name too. damn.
maybe i think i know, but what is AAA?
it is interesting that this post has gotten as much discussion as it has, the bottom line is the argument of what is and is not offensive to a particular group is moot. the owners of this website have absolute right to determine what is and what is not appropriate. it has long been determined that full freedom of speech and expression does not apply in privately owned enterprises.
as for michelle malkin, she is in no way attractive (IMHO) and is a touch racist herself and not deserving of mention in any post here. if you have read her books you know what i am getting at.
Apparently it means ‘angry, arrogant & anglophilic’.
My definition of AAA is Angry Azn Activist.
@Dr. Lee: How exactly do you know that Michelle Malkin “denies [her] own heritage and wants to think [she’s] white”? That’s awfully presumptious of you. Or perhaps “biased” is more accurate.
I think it is self-evident to anyone who isn’t blinded by extreme right wing politics. I mean, come on – she is a child of immigrant parents who is anti immigration and supports racial profiling!
michelle malkin is married to a white guy and she decries diversification calling it a societal weakness? for shame…
enough about her…
as evident by our immigration policy, america is a tinge racist society. i am american, i live here. i am not a racist nor do i suspect many of the american people here are, but we are learning what is correct or seemingly correct in this country does not bode well in other places or to other peoples.
(evidence of this can be read at http://www.absolutedementia.blogspot.com under the post ‘fun facts of the day’..i am not certain of the link posting policy, i apologize if i am wrong to post it)
if western people want to continue to refer to asians as oriental, then can asians refer to westerners as occidental?
in my travels to southeast asia i had my share of unwanted comments that to this day i shudder and wince hearing them. specifically in thailand is that term “farang” which is applied to anyone who is white. what exactly it means i am not sure of as i heard it was “white people”, “foreigner”, “blue-eyed devils” i dont know…in singapore it was “anh mo” which i think is “red haired” or something. and use of the ubiquitous N word was used liberally by all kinds of people when discussing specifically america.
Yes, they may refer to us as occidental if they want!
And I am often referred to by Chinese people as a ‘white ghost’, but I am not bothered by it. In fact I think it’s pretty funny!
Is that “gwai lo”?
In Japan it’s “gaijin”, which I find offensive but my Japanese GF does not. Literally means outsider. I was in a Japanese restaurant in New York & they referred to me as such among themselves. On my way out after leaving $0.95 tip I informed them that THEY are here in my country and THEY are the gaijin!
This thread really makes me laugh, as it is more replete with all manner of offensive language than all other threads combined! =)
That’s right! Every culture – including Asians themselves – have terms and concepts relating to outsiders and foreigners. It’s only natural, and indeed often necessary in a descriptive sense. To say that a term should be outlawed just because it means foreigner or outsider is just ridiculous!
yeah luvjgirls, this seems like the “free pass” post. a kind of “get it out of your system and discuss it here, otherwise forget it” situation…
no no, i wasnt saying that i found the terms offensive in that sense. it was more like “i am a human being and i have a name dammit!” when the term was directed at me walking down the street and someone tries to get my attention as in “hey farang”
Yaawn! I just woke up, what happened?
Well, I first heard the term “ornamental” back in college–1986 or so. At that point I wasn’t aware that “oriental” was bad, but was told by friends in Asian fraternities that oriental should only be used for rugs and noodles. Anything else was offensive. On my personal list of words that really bug me are “nip” and “jap” anyone who doesn’t understand that is either very tolerant, very stupid, or doesn’t have any relatives who once lived in concentration camps.
I know it’s politically expedient to conflate immigration with illegal immigration, but they’re not the same thing. I sincerely doubt she’s anti-legal immigration.
It’s not about race; it’s about the law. That said, our system needs an overhaul (and I work in the system).
Curtis G., your thoughts on the current immigration reform bill? I think there are some serrrrrrious flaws. Also…726 pages, can you believe that?!
Curtis, it’s all about race. Were they black & from Haiti, as happened a few years ago, they’d be immediately deported without a second thought, which is what happened. The only reason there’s any debate at all about letting Mexicans stay is because they are not black!
Being a political document Christine, I can believe it. 😉
And the vast majority of people on both sides of the political fence are anti illegal immigration; the right wing extremists who make a big point of it are almost invariably racist and anti-immigration period. Especially someone like Michelle, who openly supports racial profiling, even to the point of devoting an entire book to the subject, which makes her about as extreme a racist as you can get. As such, if she isn’t a twinkie, then nobody is!
i am pro illegal immigration..it is what america is made of….starting with those wetback pilgrims….:))) no offense to my hispanic brothers. j/k
christine, you’re so knowledgeable about a lot of stuff, from women, to history, culture and politics. And you’re pretty and asian too. I’m developing a crush. 😉
to say right-wingers are only anti illegal immigration is a fallacy. buchanan, tancredo, and the aforementioned malkin are all proponents of ending immigration of all kinds except for those from western europe or canada. they all like to point out the race of people who commit horrid crimes as those people speak for their entire race or nationality. none of them mention anything about white crimes. and that only drives home the fact that america IS a slightly racist nation…read about visa approvals from nations, that says a lot. and of course there were the internment camps from the 40’s. why weren’t the germans put in camps? (for the record, malkin is on record as supporting those internment camps for the japanese and supports the idea today for muslims.
dazn – we shall have to wait another day or two for Christine to grace us with her presence again, as she is presently having exams. I’m missing her contributions already, like “blowing your own tangential political load all over this website” (see her response to johnnie above) – absolutely brilliant!
And oedipusrex – right on! Far right wingers love to hide behind the facade of “it’s about the law”, when what they’re actually doing is just spouting racism.
Well, then, good luck to christine on her exams!
oedipusrex, just wanna note that there were internment camps for germans too, in the US.
Anyway, in times of war, things get a new perspective and countries us what they can, to stop a very dangerous threat. Mistakes were made, for sure.
We welcome illegal Mexicans because they’re not black?
luvjgirls, that’s so ignorant it boggles the mind.
let them all in i tell ya……
luvjgirls…i think the issue is a little more complex and political. curtis too….hispanics are more likely to be conservative and benefit the republicans more. african american are more likely to be liberal and benefit the democrats. Hispanics are low wage workers and benefit big business….too crazy for me….i say let them all in…human resources and diversity are all best asset…plus it is good for my work :))
and another thing, Lee and Dazn quit kissing ass with christine….i am getting jealous :))
Hispanics may be more likely to BE conservative, but they’re guaranteed to VOTE Democrat. Which is why the Democrats want them in. I think the Republicans think that if they welcome Mexicans into the country, they’ll be so grateful they’ll vote Republican, but that just won’t happen. So they’re pandering to a group of people who will never, ever vote for them.
For my part, I’m for decriminalizing them, but I don’t favor handing anyone citizenship. That must be worked for.
Lee…..I see that ‘indigenous’ is now preferred over ‘primitive’. That’s fine.
But I don’t quite understand what characteristics some Asian ladies have that warrants this description. It seems that dark skin might be one? Are there others?
I guess I’m asking: What characteristics do the ‘primitive’ or ‘indigenous’ looking Asian ladies have that ‘non-primitive’ and ‘non-indigenous’ looking Asian ladies don’t have? Thanks.
Dark skin is one factor, but the I think the most important one is more ‘robust’ features. I prefer the more delicate features of true orientals, as opposed to the more robust features of Polynesians. The ethnically darker skinned people we often call ‘Asian’ – but who actually come from island nations like the Philipines – fall into this group, as does the mainstream Thai population. Where lighter skin and more delicate features have come into the mix, it is the result of mixing with oriental stock. (BTW, here is a good example of why I need to use ‘oriental’!)
hey north….i prefer both..but if take a look at thitima and compare her looks to say Rina, you can see the differences. i like the exotic looks but the delicate features that doc refers are good also…i guess i would take both :))
Lee….Regarding the Asians with the more delicate features you describe, couldn’t you say they too are ‘indigenous’ to the area they are from?
I see you distinction now, but I’m not sure ‘indigenous’ is the right word?
LawBoy, dont get too jealous. Maybe christine has a twin. lol
And I agree that citizenship must be earned. I do believe there have to be limits. Let’s face it, countries need to maintain some control of their native population (ok, USA not a good example), otherwise we see stuff like Kosovo happening. Wars, separations, etc.
Immigration should be accepted as long as there are enough jobs to be filled. If not, sorry, but life is tough.
Hi Northman. What you say is strictly correct, which is the reason I used ‘primitive’ in the first place – it is the most accurate term for what I was trying to express. ‘Indigenous’ is an attempt at a less offensive compromise, but if you can think of anything better, I’m all ears!
no, daznlover, i don’t have a twin. i’m even an only child! :[ but i have a hot cousin if anyone’s interested hehehe.
and thanks, exams went well! i’m still in school though (another summer school class). and now to do all of the errands i’ve postponed since exams have started, like answering emails and laundry. ah, college
lawboy is right in that the immigration issue is more complex and political. did curtis g. mean granting of amnesty in decriminalizing?
meh, i probably shouldn’t keep on fueling this post since it’s getting a little old.
Yeah, I think Christine is one of a kind. 🙂
And I might as well say it before LawBoy does – let’s see your cousin’s pix. 😉
this is my cousin !
photo
Whoah, she is pretty hot! But can she match your intellect? Still, I guess most of our readers don’t care about that. 🙂
Perhaps you can do a post on her as your first Asian Sirens feature article. 😉
hey dazn brother…we agree on so many issue so maybe we can agree to disagree on this issue. the united states is where it is now because of acceptance of diversity….the paranoia of migration has always been there..starting with the irish, italians, chinese and on and on…did you ever see Gangs of NewYork?
i am a firm believer of a country’s human resources. the more we have the better:) how do you think this industrial machine of the US is running now?…agricultural in this country would shut down if we dont have the brown brothers from the south to do the dirty work:)..let them become legalized and allowed more to come in legally and the United States will be a better country…and think of how many hot women are here illegally now..we can help them :)))
wow..your cousin is a hottie…doc you can read my mind? :))
Okay, I’m going to get roasted by the right wingers for this, but I have to say it. The experience in the EU shows that open borders WORK. When people are free to move in and out of a country at will, they tend not to immigrate! Workers come from poorer countries, stay in the richer countries for a few months to make some money, then go back home. This gives the richer countries the labour they need, but without the extra infrastructure etc. required by permanent residents. And the people from poorer countries bring home more money. Everybody wins!
And yes LawBoy, I can read your mind. 😉
christine, your cousin is definitely hot. Is she as smart as you? We could even have a family post on AS, some day. 🙂
Glad to know you’re on top of the exams, no suprise on that anyway. 😉
LawBoy, i’m not sure we disagree. I agree on immigration to fill the jobs and I agree on legalizing immigration (not necessarily citizenship, that must take time).
You’re right, we could do something helping the illegal women cases. That’s vision! lol
I just stumbled on this series of posts and must say I am impressed by the intellectual firepower we have amassed on this site. My wife, who is Dominican by the way introduced me to this site and now I am kind of a regular now and just wanted to add my two cents on this subject. Technically Asians are anybody from Japan in the east, South Asians comprising the Indian subcontinent going all the way up to the Afghani area and even including the whole middleast. Which means this site has been neglecting a whole region that also includes that powerhouse state Israel. So when are we going to start seeing pictures of Iranian beauties, which I think would bring this site up to whole different level. I have a friend who is Morrocan and his wife is from Khazastan or Kryzistan I think and she blonde hair and green eyes and the shape of her eyes and cheek bones are totally East Asian. Thats another region that has to be mother lode of gorgeous women…
Ohoh, here we go again, the discussion restarts. 🙂
Welcome rotaryseven, we learn a lot here (besides admiring beautiful women).
…and after air-clearing blond Asians and pubes posts. Let’s stick to what’s important and get back to boobies.
this thread should be closed……
racism is more prevelant in the rest of the world than it is in the USA….but you all seem to slam on us American’s….
Well for your information we have done a good job ridding our culture of racism (and sitll get slammed for racism though we try)…but how about you focusing on Islamic or Hindu based governments that really show what true racism is instead of the USA where we do try not to look at a person’s coler…but their soul….
Until then you are all hypocrites in my eyes…do your homework before you reply to this thread….or the wisest thing is for the admin to close the thread….
DiverMike
this is another one of those completely left-field comments to which i don’t even know how to begin a reply. really? “for [my] information,” we’re really rid of racism here in the US? oh, what was i thinking!!! that immigration reform bill that just collapsed did so because we’re soooo happy with our current immigration law provisions, since they’re absolutely unarchaic and unfounded in any sort of problematic regime that implicates race, right? and, we have had absolutely no arguments about a heavily racialized “illegal immigrant” problem nor has anything that rhymed with “commutative fraction” ever become a problem within the past decade, right?
perhaps –perhaps– relative to some other countries we’re better off, but that doesn’t make the US a perfect place. if we all abided by a “well we’re better than all of the others, we should probably stop complaining now” mantra in life in general, we’d probably still be using flint to start fires and shaving with sharp rocks since, after all, we’ve already done a really good job discovering fire and learning how to sharpen objects. try harder? nah.
i must say that you are quite the poet, though. “not to look at a person’s coler [sic]…but their soul…” you should be a ghostwriter for some of president bush’s speeches. not only would the imminent lack of knowledge on our country’s [race] problems make you an excellent candidate, i think that your eagerness to point to other countries as “worse off” compared to ours, combined with your coy use of patriotic pathos and your evasion of providing direct evidence by telling us to “do our homework” will put you over the top. ah!
and closing a post? great idea, since, of course, closing posts and barring further discussion on contentious topics is the best solution, and every one of the readers here is from the US. why didn’t i think of these things?
mike….i respect your oppinions and you are right. in other countries, classism, racism, sexism, and other isms are probably worse than this great country of ours. the discussion here is to point out some shortcommings of USA and improve. it is not enough to say…other countries are bad we are just not that bad. there are always room for improvement and you have to agree with me that we do have some underlining racism in this country right cracker boy :)) j/k 🙂
haha lawboy was much nicer than me in replying. sorry, it’s that time of the month for me, divermike! forgive me for being so brash.
maybe it is that time of the month for divermike too christine darling :))
Harsh or not, every word Christine wrote is true. And quite frankly, America’s record on racism isn’t as good as a lot of Americans like to think it is – look at what happened in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, for example. Australia has had several huge cyclones (including some that have wiped out entire cities), but nothing like this has ever happened here. Of course there are other countries that are far worse than America, but out of the countries that actually read this blog, the US actually doesn’t hold up especially well.
And besides, DiverMike’s post is basically off topic anyway. This is a discussion of the use of racist terms on Asian Sirens – which is obvioulsy very relevant to this site and has to be discussed – not a discussion of racism in the US. The mere fact that we have been able to discuss this issue so civilly is I think a testimony to the lack of racism amongst our readership, so in my opinion this thread shows great enlightenment and tolerance.